Offside when ball goes dead

Shelflife


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Red have a ruck on their 5m line. The ball is passed back to red 10 who is deep in goal and he kicks for touch and finds it.

Blue take a QTI and red12 who was ahead of the kicker and has advanced is in a position to make a tackle.

Is red 12 offside ? or has the ball going dead negated the fact that he was in front of the kicker ?
 

OB..


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The ball went dead, so all offside lines disappear. Blue can mike the ball live again with a QTI, but cannot revive the offside lines.
 

Volun-selected


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The ball went dead, so all offside lines disappear. Blue can mike the ball live again with a QTI, but cannot revive the offside lines.
If Red 12 is offside and moving up the pitch (so making no attempt to get back onside) after the kick but before it goes into touch, and that gives them a material advantage then wouldn’t the call for offside precede the ball going dead?
 

crossref


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There are some guidelines about this on the WR site . Should be a PK
 

Dickie E


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If Red 12 is offside and moving up the pitch (so making no attempt to get back onside) after the kick but before it goes into touch, and that gives them a material advantage then wouldn’t the call for offside precede the ball going dead?

Unless Red 12 is offside under 10 metre law, he doesn't need to make an attempt to get back onside. Just standing still is adequate. But yes, if moving forward before ball goes into touch gives a material advantage (ie preventing a QTI) then penalty. If its just a #3 lumbering up to the lineout, play on.
 

Dickie E


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so the White player with the big red arrow looks to be about 10m from touch. If he'd just stood there and his very presence discouraged a QTI, then that would be play on?
 

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crossref


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I think so, yes. The offence is to move forward.
So players in front of the kick need to stay still, until put onside or until the ball goes into touch
 

Jarrod Burton


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I think so, yes. The offence is to move forward.
So players in front of the kick need to stay still, until put onside or until the ball goes into touch
But if Green took the throw and that player attempted to take part they are offside under 10.1(c) or 10.4(c) correct?
 

crossref


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But if Green took the throw and that player attempted to take part they are offside under 10.1(c) or 10.4(c) correct?
I think once the ball goes into touch, the requirement to stay still (or retire) ceases and then.. if they were legal up to that point .. they are free to defend the QTI
 

Jarrod Burton


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I think once the ball goes into touch, the requirement to stay still (or retire) ceases and then.. if they were legal up to that point .. they are free to defend the QTI
I can't see how a player in front of their team mate who last played it would be considered onside. But it has been a long week and rugby is organised chaos at times especially once the backs start kicking it back and forth.
 

Shelflife


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In the match in question it didn't prevent the QTI, they took the QTI and then he blew the whistle.
 

crossref


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I can't see how a player in front of their team mate who last played it would be considered onside. But it has been a long week and rugby is organised chaos at times especially once the backs start kicking it back and forth.
It's a thing we have discussed before .. all the WR videos showed scenarios where the players actually advanced. So ..
 

Dickie E


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I think so, yes. The offence is to move forward.
So players in front of the kick need to stay still, until put onside or until the ball goes into touch
so could be an interesting tactic:
1. Send Blue #12 down to the halfway, 15 metres, in who then stands motionless
2. Blue #10 then kicks for gain in ground from his own 22 with ball going out on halfway
3. Once ball is out, Blue #12 if free to contest any QTI
 

Jarrod Burton


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so could be an interesting tactic:
1. Send Blue #12 down to the halfway, 15 metres, in who then stands motionless
2. Blue #10 then kicks for gain in ground from his own 22 with ball going out on halfway
3. Once ball is out, Blue #12 if free to contest any QTI
Surely this is an omission from the laws. QTI's seem to be a method of removing a stoppage by extending the open play period so I'd have thought that the offside in general play laws continue to apply until the QTI option is no longer available.

Take the example above - if the 12 was offside before the kick and the ball didn't go out, would we allow that player to then chase the catcher down from behind - No, because of the 10m part of the law. I can't see how a player who is offside in front of the kicker like this can be brought onside until a LoT is formed at the LO.
 

Dickie E


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Surely this is an omission from the laws. QTI's seem to be a method of removing a stoppage by extending the open play period so I'd have thought that the offside in general play laws continue to apply until the QTI option is no longer available.

Take the example above - if the 12 was offside before the kick and the ball didn't go out, would we allow that player to then chase the catcher down from behind - No, because of the 10m part of the law. I can't see how a player who is offside in front of the kicker like this can be brought onside until a LoT is formed at the LO.
even if the #12 didn't participate in the QTI and remained motionless,, his very presence in the area is likely to deter a QTI
 

crossref


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so could be an interesting tactic:
1. Send Blue #12 down to the halfway, 15 metres, in who then stands motionless
2. Blue #10 then kicks for gain in ground from his own 22 with ball going out on halfway
3. Once ball is out, Blue #12 if free to contest any QTI
In this case the 10m rule would apply so he'd have to retreat 10m rather than stand still, but otherwise yes I think it would be legal.

I don't think it would be a good tactic .. 12 is removing himself from the game in order to contest a QTI that probably will never happen anyway, and all the time if a ruck happens he'll need to get quickly back.onside

In general terms is it legal to station yourself motionless 40m upfield , waiting for ball to arrive ?
 

Dickie E


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In this case the 10m rule would apply so he'd have to retreat 10m rather than stand still, but otherwise yes I think it would be legal.
He is on the 15m line, so 10m rule wouldn't apply
I don't think it would be a good tactic .. 12 is removing himself from the game in order to contest a QTI that probably will never happen anyway, and all the time if a ruck happens he'll need to get quickly back.onside
I'm thinking from a standard #10 clearance of a #9 box kick, so a ruck or any other phase is unlikely
In general terms is it legal to station yourself motionless 40m upfield , waiting for ball to arrive ? I can't see why not provided no offside lines exist
 
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