[Law] Penalise teams late onto the field

[Zebra1922]

I’d like the hive minds opinion on when you would penalise a team for being late onto the field of play with a penalty.

one team was late today leading to a 1402 KO instead of 1400. Oppo coaches were adamant I should have given a penalty, voicing their opinions both before and after the game (I was somewhat cheesed off and made the mistake of talking to a coach straight after the game and let him know what he could with his opinions, but that’s another thread methinks).

so anyway, would you penalise this? Do you have a strict if you’re not on the field at the proper KO time it’s a penalty. 2 mins? 3 mins? 5 mins?

i’ve been referring 6 years and never penalised this and teamshave been late on occasion. Am I too lax?

 

[Dickie E]

I have done so & would again but only after several requests to get started and if no valid reason. It would certainly be 5+ minutes after scheduled time.

 

[SimonSmith]

I'd be interested to know the backstory a bit more. Were they in changing rooms, did you warn them etc etc...

I've had this happen twice, did two different things, and both Assessors hated my approach.

One was on exchange to Diss. I'd knocked the door, and I was out on the field with the away side in not great weather. Home side were three minutes late and I penalized them. It clearly a deliberate ploy.

Second time was in Philadelphia. No changing rooms, they were just a minute late trotting over from the nearby training field. Away Coach about to die of apoplexy. Assessor felt I should have been stronger.

There aren't very many changing rooms over here, so I've adapted my pre match to the Captains. "I'll shout when there's 10, 5 and 2. At two, everybody else off and starting fifteen ready to go."

I kick off on time every time now.

 

[Zebra1922]

I'd be interested to know the backstory a bit more. Were they in changing rooms, did you warn them etc etc...

I've had this happen twice, did two different things, and both Assessors hated my approach.

One was on exchange to Diss. I'd knocked the door, and I was out on the field with the away side in not great weather. Home side were three minutes late and I penalized them. It clearly a deliberate ploy.

Second time was in Philadelphia. No changing rooms, they were just a minute late trotting over from the nearby training field. Away Coach about to die of apoplexy. Assessor felt I should have been stronger.

There aren't very many changing rooms over here, so I've adapted my pre match to the Captains. "I'll shout when there's 10, 5 and 2. At two, everybody else off and starting fifteen ready to go."

I kick off on time every time now.

they were in the changing rooms, but I hadn’t knocked. At this level some teams go into changing rooms, some don’t, and I usually do not so I’m not in a position to knock.

the weather was foul so the ‘early’ team were complaining the late team go an advantage by staying in the warm for longer. By that argument you’re implying you might penalise this but only if the weather is bad, which seems inconsistent to me.

As I said I’ve never penalised this, I think if a team had a either ignored a request to get a move on, or were more than 5 minutes late I’d take action but I’d be interested is more thoughts from my fellow whistle blowers.

On a separate note I always find it strange when a coach focuses so much on a single decision/non decision, when you are making 250-300 per game. They also rarely lack empathy, I understood his point about his team getting cold but said I didn’t think it was appropriate etp punish 2 minutes late and set a precedent for strict refereeing to the letter of each law. He had no concept of considering my side of the argument, just ranted about how I was wrong not to penalise (and o got pretty much the same rant, although with less aggressoin, from 2 other coaches. I still can’t figure out why this in particular got their goat. Personally I thought my scrum management was crap throughout which would have been something they had stronger grounds to ‘discuss’ with me).

 

[Dickie E]

in my neck of the woods the teams are required to provide TJs. If a coach had a whinge to me, I'd tell him to send his nominated TJ to give the opposition a knock.

 

[crossref]

You simply cannot start with a PK , there is no offence committed and nothing in the Law Book to cover a PK

Write a quick report to the League organisers and let them deal with it.

And personally I wouldn't be scurrying off to the changing rooms to issue instructions that are going to be ignored , that doesn't make me look good ...

 

[Balones]

“If you are not out in one minute lads I’m off home”. Only had to use it once and it worked.

 

[crossref]

“If you are not out in one minute lads I’m off home”. Only had to use it once and it worked.

But that's a bluff , right? You wouldn't really go home ...

.. so, if it didn't work ....

 

[ianh5979]

But that's a bluff , right? You wouldn't really go home ...

.. so, if it didn't work ....

If i made that threat i would follow through

 

[Marc Wakeham]

We are told t ostay in the changing rooms and walk on with / follow the teams. Running back to chase them up looks bad.

I don't see where yo uget the authority to give a PK. The game has not started. Other than the catch all Acts contrary to ......" But does that even apply before KO. I trhink I'd go with reporting them to the parent body.


On another note. Unless you've given them a call. You'd be on very dodgy ground getting"heavy".

I like Balones "I'm off in a minute" line as long as it is a promise rather than a threat.

 

[crossref]

If i made that threat i would follow through

I am not sure you would get the support of your society / union. It would be a brave step to actually pick up your whistle go home

 

[Zebra1922]

I’m interested in the comments about not being able to start with a penalty. I didn’t use this in my discussion with the coach but might have cut him off at the knee if there was no way of penalizing lateness.

To those that have given a penalty, under what law? (I’d consider a penalty but now don’t know whether I technically can).

And to those who say you can never penalize this, what do we do if a team is way 10 minutes late (and it’s not traffic related, let’s say it’s bad weather and they are trying to make the oppo cold)?

 

[crossref]

I have not ever had a team being maliciously late. But sometimes you do get teams who are not well organised becoming late and still huddling when the moment comes.

Generally I would do nothing. If the huddle persists an irritating amount of time a few impatient whistle blasts usually works.

NB I would not be standing in the middle waiting for them - I don't think that's a good look. I always stay at the sideline and come on to the pitch after the players.

If the team is actually absent -ie in the changing room - it's harder. I wouldn't run off after them. I like the idea of sending someone after them.

At the end of the day I don't think there is much you can do really.

Thanksfully it's not a common problem.

 

[Balones]

But that's a bluff , right? You wouldn't really go home ...

.. so, if it didn't work ....

If you knew me you would know it wasn't a bluff, I assure you. I don’t mess other people around so I don’t expect to be messed around myself. Quite straightforward.

 

[Balones]

I am not sure you would get the support of your society / union. It would be a brave step to actually pick up your whistle go home

Depends on how supportive your society was. I would not want to be a member of a society that allowed its members to be messed around. Why brave? We referees are doing it voluntarily. In a voluntary situation you are or should be in control of the situation.

 

[crossref]

If you knew me you would know it wasn't a bluff, I assure you. I don’t mess other people around so I don’t expect to be messed around myself. Quite straightforward.

I believe you. But then I would say you are escalating too far too fast. Abandoning the gamenl becasue one team comes out late is disproportionate, I think

 

[Balones]

We are told t ostay in the changing rooms and walk on with / follow the teams. Running back to chase them up looks bad.

I don't see where yo uget the authority to give a PK. The game has not started. Other than the catch all Acts contrary to ......" But does that even apply before KO. I trhink I'd go with reporting them to the parent body.


On another note. Unless you've given them a call. You'd be on very dodgy ground getting"heavy".

I like Balones "I'm off in a minute" line as long as it is a promise rather than a threat.

I thought that what is outlined above was the standard procedure. Whether it is as an individual ref or team of three. My procedure was more or less five minute warning, followed by two minutes or maybe one and then followed by “ok, out we go lads”. I had to use the last phrase twice with the team mentioned in my first post. I felt I was being ignored and basically not bring treated particularly appropriately from the moment I turned up. It was the home team so by this stage I was a bit p****d off anyway.

 

[Zebra1922]

I thought that what is outlined above was the standard procedure. Whether it is as an individual ref or team of three. My procedure was more or less five minute warning, followed by two minutes or maybe one and then followed by “ok, out we go lads”. I had to use the last phrase twice with the team mentioned in my first post. I felt I was being ignored and basically not bring treated particularly appropriately from the moment I turned up. It was the home team so by this stage I was a bit p****d off anyway.

what is ‘appropriately treated’? I turn up, someone might show me where the changing room is, but usually I find it myself. I get changed and go get warmed up. I can’t say I’m inappropriately treated as there is pretty much no interaction.

 

[Balones]

I believe you. But then I would say you are escalating too far too fast. Abandoning the gamenl becasue one team comes out late is disproportionate, I think

I wouldn’t be abandoning the game because it would never have started. They are very welcome to get another referee to start the game if they want to. It just wouldn’t be me because I’d be in my car and on my way home. It’s not an abandoned game , simply one that didn’t take place.

 

[Balones]

what is ‘appropriately treated’? I turn up, someone might show me where the changing room is, but usually I find it myself. I get changed and go get warmed up. I can’t say I’m inappropriately treated as there is pretty much no interaction.

Well for one thing I turned up to a full car park and parked in the only space that was vacant. The club president’s space. I was told, not very politely, to move my car and park on a main road. The changing room was filthy and had not been cleaned since the previous week. I was then messed about in relation to the prematch briefing - “we’ll let you know when we are ready”. I was getting the impression that I was simply an add on to the occasion rather than a rather crucial part of it. I am not a prima donna but I am courteous and polite and expect to be treated in the same way, especially if I am doing someone a favour on a voluntary basis.