[Law] Penalise teams late onto the field

[Dickie E]

I think I did.

not you

 

[Pablo]

Zebra, some hopefully practical advice, back on topic. I got caught out by this very early in my career, and received this guidance from a senior referee. Since then, I have never had a delayed kick-off (at least, not without prior agreement due to traffic delays, etc.).

they were in the changing rooms, but I hadn’t knocked. At this level some teams go into changing rooms, some don’t, and I usually do not so I’m not in a position to knock.

This is the key bit. You have a bunch of pre-match admin that you do with the teams anyway (studs, PMB, etc.). Add in a step where you ask the coach (or, in the absence of one, the captain) what their pre-match plans are. Many teams, even at low level, have some sort of set warm-up they want to go through, so this shows some respect for their rhythm while allowing you to get the necessaries done. It also means that you will know exactly where the teams intend to be! As you finish that step, confirm with the coach/captain what YOU think the time is, so they can account for marginal differences in their watches.

I then tell them that I will give a 10-minute and 5-minute warning to both teams. Assuming they are in the clubhouse, I then get the away side out at 3 minutes before, and the home side at 2 minutes. And I am the last person to leave the clubhouse for the pitch.

I the very unlikely event that this management approach still allows someone to play silly buggers, penalty from KO for wasting my time. But I've never had to use that option.

Hope this helps!

 

[Skids]

An eminently sensible approach Pablo.

You might also consider adding to each coach/captain, that you expect them out on the pitch in time for an on-time ko, so they have been told in no uncertain terms, your expectations. They therefore have little excuse for being late.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Well, I'm hearing of lot of what you can't do and why you can't do it. Why don't you tell the OP (and the rest of us) what YOU would do?

Oh dear, we seem to be getting upset. Had you read Post 10, You may have seen that I have said what I'd do. I've emphasised the relevant part to help you:

We are told to stay in the changing rooms and walk on with / follow the teams. Running back to chase them up looks bad.

I don't see where you get the authority to give a PK. The game has not started. Other than the catch all "Acts contrary to ......" But does that even apply before KO. I think I'd go with reporting them to the parent body.


On another note. Unless you've given them a call. You'd be on very dodgy ground getting"heavy".

I like Balones "I'm off in a minute" line as long as it is a promise rather than a threat.

Perhaps you should wind your neck in next time someone has the temerity to disagree with you.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

to some extent though, here in the UK in the middle of winter, its getting dark coming the end of the match. Due to injuries etc I've been in games that by the time fiull time has come around, the cars on the road adjacent have all been on full beam and the street lights fully on. A team taking twenty minutes to start the game is serriously jepardising the ability to complete a game in such scenarios.

didds

Agreed. And It may be needed, on some occasions, to call time early due to the conditions. I would include that fact in my report to the organiser. Pointing out the reason the gome had to to finish early was caused by the teams failure to come out on time.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Never had an issue with teams keeping me or their oppos waiting.

I tell both captains at toss (40 mins before KO or so) that if they're in the changing rooms at 5mins to go I'll give them a knock. If I end up knocking again I want them straight out.

This assumes we're straight on to the 1st team pitch ie out of changing rooms, through fence and on.

I wait for last team to go and follow them on to the field. To be honest most teams are "professional" enough that when they hear the clatter of the oppos studs in the corridor then they're not far behind.

I'm not too fussed at getting off within a nanosecond of 15h00 as long as neither team are taking the piss and keeping me/oppos waiting. Always looks better if you're there or thereabouts however.

One or two clubs have a bit of a walk to the pitch in Yorks 1 (a few hundred metres) so I adjust to suit.

Other than that if we've a walk to the pitch it's usually a Merit League and we all stroll to pitch - again not a big deal if we're KO at 15h05 (or whatever).

I've only really been dicked about once and that was a combination of me being late and them being twats - exchange in Surrey. No names !

 

[beckett50]

It happens at lower levels where Clubs are a little less organised and this is a management issue we need to address for our own sanity and routine. I agree with the advice given by Pablo.

As to what I would do in that situation? I would award a PK against the team arriving late despite my instructions.

 

[crossref]

It happens at lower levels where Clubs are a little less organised and this is a management issue we need to address for our own sanity and routine. I agree with the advice given by Pablo.

As to what I would do in that situation? I would award a PK against the team arriving late despite my instructions.

Does it really ? I have been reffing a good few years and have never had the need to manage it (beyond say an impatient peep on the whistle) . I just wait, really, I have never experienced a delay so long that I felt anything needed to be done . I think this is pretty rare.

 

[Zebra1922]

I’m hearing the general consensus is to manage it, but if that fails although there is not a specific law covering this many referees would give a penalty.

i must admit the likelihood of me giving said penalty rapidly diminished with the way the coach spoke to me, but is something I’ll consider more for future games.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Always walk out after both teams and never get changed until the opposition actually arrive!

 

[Dickie E]

ultimately, if the team isn't out there at scheduled time +15 minutes, it's a forfeit.

 

[Dickie E]

Oh dear, we seem to be getting upset. Had you read Post 10, You may have seen that I have said what I'd do. I've emphasised the relevant part to help you:



Perhaps you should wind your neck in next time someone has the temerity to disagree with you.

Let's add a bit of colour. It's wet & cold, you and the other team are standing in the middle of the park, shivering, and the recalcitrants are still in the sheds. It's game time + 10 minutes. The captain/coach of the shiverers asks you to do something. "damn right I will. I'll write a report on Monday!"

Good work.

 

[Zebra1922]

Dickie/Marc - I don’t know what’s going on with you two but how about a nice gin, calm down and let’s get back to a good friendly debate or supporting fellow refs. To paraphrase my speech at the weekend, you can continue to have a pi**ing contest or we can talk some laws. I prefer the latter.

 

[TigerCraig]

From NSW Suburban Rugby Union manual:

12. MATCH TIMING
12.1 The duration of matches and kick-off times shall be:
Grade Each Half Kick Off
1st 40 mins 3:15pm
2nd 35 mins 2:00pm
Colts 35 mins 12:45pm
3rds 30 mins 11:40am
4ths 25 mins 10.45am

12.2 Any club which is not prepared to commence a match within ten minutes of the official kick-off time shall forfeit the match without right of appeal. The referee shall note such occurrence on the result sheet.
12.3 Any time lost in commencing a match for whatever reason shall be deducted from the allocated time for that match.
12.4 Injury time will be added to the playing time in first grade matches only.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Dickie/Marc - I don’t know what’s going on with you two but how about a nice gin, calm down and let’s get back to a good friendly debate or supporting fellow refs. To paraphrase my speech at the weekend, you can continue to have a pi**ing contest or we can talk some laws. I prefer the latter.

I've no problem. Seems he has, for whatever reason.

- - - Updated - - -

From NSW Suburban Rugby Union manual:

12. MATCH TIMING
12.1 The duration of matches and kick-off times shall be:
Grade Each Half Kick Off
1st 40 mins 3:15pm
2nd 35 mins 2:00pm
Colts 35 mins 12:45pm
3rds 30 mins 11:40am
4ths 25 mins 10.45am

12.2 Any club which is not prepared to commence a match within ten minutes of the official kick-off time shall forfeit the match without right of appeal. The referee shall note such occurrence on the result sheet.
12.3 Any time lost in commencing a match for whatever reason shall be deducted from the allocated time for that match.
12.4 Injury time will be added to the playing time in first grade matches only.

And that makes good sense. Especially with your restricttions on time.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Let's add a bit of colour. It's wet & cold, you and the other team are standing in the middle of the park, shivering, and the recalcitrants are still in the sheds. It's game time + 10 minutes. The captain/coach of the shiverers asks you to do something. "damn right I will. I'll write a report on Monday!"

Good work.

AS Balones put you have the option of abandoning the game. It is all about context. After 10 minutes whatever the conditions I'm probably feeling they are not prepared to play.



You use some common sense. What you do not do is award made up penalties.

 

[didds]

In subbies, if say 8 minutes were thus lost but you KO... is that now 2 x 26 halves, or 1st half of 22 minutes and 2nd of 30? (in loower grades as the example)

didds

 

[Pinky]

It also depends why they are late onto the pitch. A few years ago I had a u18 cup semifinal on 4G pitch at Murrayfield and one team who was travelling from nearly 2 hours away was late. They arrived about 10 mins before KO, but I took the decision to delay the KO to allow them to worm up on a pitch they had not played on an get a couple of practice moves and kicks in. I had discussed this with the opposition and all but 1 coach were in agreement, but he was persuaded by his colleagues.

 

[TigerCraig]

In subbies, if say 8 minutes were thus lost but you KO... is that now 2 x 26 halves, or 1st half of 22 minutes and 2nd of 30? (in loower grades as the example)

didds

You would do 2 x 26

 

[Marc Wakeham]

It also depends why they are late onto the pitch.

Of course.