Place Kicking Competition

[kaypeegee]

Came across a Place Kicking Competition to decide a game for the first time last week (rules below).

15-all draw in a national u17 knock-out divisional final. 2 tries each, one converted each and one penalty goal each.

Spectating (son playing) and was acting as unofficial photographer.
St. ST was AR (but got in the way of my best photo-shots. I have some out of focus close-ups of his shorts though :chin

Just wondered how common a goal kicking shoot-out was.

KPG


6.3 Place Kicking Competition
6.3.1 Each team shall nominate one player from its number on the field of play at the final whistle to participate on its behalf in a place kicking competition.
6.3.2 Each kicker in turn shall attempt a place kick 1 from pre-determined positions until such time as, after equal attempts; one kicker has kicked more goals than the other.
6.3.3 The first kick shall be taken by the team that Kicked-off at the commencement of the match. The attempts will be taken from the following positions in turn, repeating the sequence until a decision is reached: -
(a) the intersection of the 22-metre line and the centre of the 22-metre line
(b) the intersection of 22-metre and 15-metre lines to left of posts facing
(c) the intersection of 22-metre and 5-metre lines to left of posts facing
(d) the intersection of 22-metre and 15-metre lines to right of posts facing
(e) the intersection of 22-metre and 5-metre lines to right of posts facing

 

[PaulDG]

Just wondered how common a goal kicking shoot-out was.

Rare.

Even in juniors where there can be no extra time, it's unusual.

One decided a Heineken Cup semi-final in 2009 though.

 

[OB..]

The silver try rule would have solved this particular case - the side that scored the first try wins.

 

[Jenko]

The silver try rule would have solved this particular case - the side that scored the first try wins.

Do you mean team to score first try in playing time? Can't be extra time as i understand in U19.

 

[crossref]

Do you mean team to score first try in playing time? Can't be extra time as i understand in U19.

I understand that you CAN have extra time in short-format 7s or 10s tournaments, the ban on extra time is in the full-length 15-a-side game

Eg for U14

Playing time not to exceed 25 minutes each way with a size 4 ball. After 50
minutes of playing time, the referee must not allow extra time to be played in
the case of a drawn match in a knock-out competition

In 7s and 10s the IRB variations say that in extra time first to score should win

B.4. EXTRA TIME – THE WINNER

In extra time, the team that scores points first is immediately declared the winner, without any further play.

I understand that at 7s or 10s at junior level extra time , with golden try, is OK

 

[OB..]

Do you mean team to score first try in playing time? Can't be extra time as i understand in U19.

Yes.

I believe we use it in mini tournaments.

 

[Simon Thomas]

This match was the quarter finals of the national Seventeens Bowl so serious rugby and very high quality I have to say.

RFU and Divisional Comps make the tournament rules, we just apply them. The referee (a Premiership AR) has taken a fair bit of stick from the brotherhood for "mis-management".

My game was a qtr-final at Shield level, and was a corker and I had no such issues though the score was close. It was rather useful having the Premiership AR and a tier 1 SW Group referee running the lines for me, fully miked up. :biggrin:

 

[crossref]

6.3 Place Kicking Competition
6.3.1 Each team shall nominate one player from its number on the field of play at the final whistle to participate on its behalf in a place kicking competition.
6.3.2 Each kicker in turn shall attempt a place kick 1 from pre-determined positions until such time as, after equal attempts; one kicker has kicked more goals than the other.
6.3.3 The first kick shall be taken by the team that Kicked-off at the commencement of the match. The attempts will be taken from the following positions in turn, repeating the sequence until a decision is reached: -
(a) the intersection of the 22-metre line and the centre of the 22-metre line
(b) the intersection of 22-metre and 15-metre lines to left of posts facing
(c) the intersection of 22-metre and 5-metre lines to left of posts facing
(d) the intersection of 22-metre and 15-metre lines to right of posts facing
(e) the intersection of 22-metre and 5-metre lines to right of posts facing

these rules really favour a right-footed kicker. What's the justice in that?
It should be
- centre
- 15m line (left or right, your choice)
- 5m line (left or right)
- the other 15m
- the other 5m

 

[Simon Thomas]

both sides had right footed kickers if I recall from Sunday - no lefties. The majority of kickers I come across are right footed, though of course there are some well known lefties like JW.

different kickers were allowed for each of the first five attempts, so a leftie could have been used.

I agree with crossref in general, but only think it to be a marginal advantage. When playing I was indeed weaker kicking across the posts from the right side as a right footed kicker, but only it only became an issue from the 15m and out towards the touchlines.

also the pitch was firm and there was no wind.

 

[crossref]

ah, i read the rules as meaning that just one kicker took all the kicks.
if you can change kickers from kick to kick then it's not so bad - but still I'd tend to think you should be able to choose whether to kick first from left, or first from right.

 

[davidgh]

Surrey have used this at Mini Festivals, very poorly written rule addendum, totally ambiguous.

Also when applied to u10s, totally irrelevant to the skills required for rugby

In my opinion puts far to much pressure on one little kid, particularaly where county championship hhangs on each kick

Stick to a flip of the coin between adults

 

[Robert Burns]

Team with the least penalties against them wins!

That'll make them behave more too.

 

[davidgh]

Who is counting penalties at a mini festival??

 

[PaulDG]

I understand that at 7s or 10s at junior level extra time , with golden try, is OK

No. Or possibly yes.

There are overall playing limits for each of the age groups.

If the competition is designed to allow this then, by managing the length of the games, it might be possible to arrange things so that knock out stages have the possibility of "extra" time.

Often this is achieved by making 7s matches 5 minutes each way (or 10 minutes one way) - giving the possibility of an "extra" 4 minutes and also having the advantage of speeding everything up if the "extra" time isn't needed.

(Part of the issue is that there are no RFU variations for junior/mini 7s competitions - so you have to "make it up" by combining the junior and IRB variations.)

 

[davidgh]

Paul

Extra time is simply not allowed in England Continuum or Youth RUgby, is it?

Are you uggeting that it may be OK to fudge the law on this?

 

[PaulDG]

Who is counting penalties at a mini festival??

It's just not possible (and would be completely "unjust").

Refs at mini festivals are very often completely unqualified "dads with whistles" who may have had to pick up the whistle for the very first time that day as the squad's "designated ref" couldn't make it, is injured, etc.

When my kids were going through the minis we met some absolutely outrageous referees (mostly at festivals - on normal Sunday mornings some "negotiation" is normally possible); with many being influenced by sideline calls and occasionally some who'd completely make stuff up - insisting on rugby league style "tap and goes" for restarts in Tag (which should either be discouraged or penalised, not required!), making up scrum engagement sequences, awarding throw ins & scrums on the goal line, "double movement"... "has to let him up" and so on and so on..

 

[PaulDG]

Paul

Extra time is simply not allowed in England Continuum or Youth RUgby, is it?

Correct.

Are you uggeting that it may be OK to fudge the law on this?

It all depends what you call "extra time".

Take a U13/14 section of a festival as an example:

The RFU sets the limit for a single 15 a side game at 25 minutes each way with no extra time except for time added to make up for stoppages for injury, shoelace tying, finding the ball that got kicked into the river and so on.

For festivals, the RFU limits U13s/U14s to a maximum of 4 matches, each no more than 10 minutes each way. Total playing time 80 minutes. (Similar arrangements exist for all other age groups, there's a table in regulation 15.)

One way to deal with drawn matches in a U13/14 knock out festival is to play all games 8 minutes each way. That way, every game has the possibility of 4 minutes "extra" time while still complying with the RFU's limits on game length.

As I wrote earlier, the RFU doesn't give a similar table for 7s, so organisers have to get "creative" and setting game lengths to 5 mins each way (or 10 min one way) means it's usually possible to justify a 5 minute ew final with 4 mins "extra" time.

 

[OB..]

I still like the silver try (first team who scored a try wins).

 

[PaulDG]

I still like the silver try (first team who scored a try wins).

There may not be any tries.

 

[crossref]

.


For festivals, the RFU limits U13s/U14s to a maximum of 4 matches, each no more than 10 minutes each way. Total playing time 80 minutes. (Similar arrangements exist for all other age groups, there's a table in regulation 15.)

.

well not quite, actually - that's only for a 15-a-side festival

For Junior Rugby - U13 upwards, the total playing time limits only apply to 15-a-side rugby.

15.5 Duration of Matches and Sessions
15.5.1 Players aged under 18 shall not play more than the maximum number of games
in one day as tabulated below

Single Fixture Festival
MinutesMax Total Minutes Max Total
e/w Games Playing e/w Games Playing
Time Time
U7/U8 10 1 20 5 5 50
U9/U10 15 1 30 6 5 60
U11/U12 20 1 40 7 5 70
U13/U14 25 1 50 10* 4* 80*
U15 30 1 60 9* 5* 90*
U16 plus 35 1 70 9* 5* 90*NB:
* = only for 15-a-side Festivals

(the formatting won't survive my cut-paste, you can find the original here -
http://rfu.com/TheGame/~/media/Files/2010/TheGame/Regulations/RFU Regulation 15.ashx

For 10s and 7s there is no festival time limit for juniors in England.
and the IRB 10s Variations specify that for 10s and 7s in the event of a drawn knockout game you should have extra-time with first-try counts.

(I am organising a 10s on Sunday, so I hope I that this right!)