[Law] Player on the ground - law reference

[Paule23]

I know the accepted wisdom that a player the ground is out of the game, but does anyone have a specific law reference for this?

say for example a player is on the floor having completed a tackle in the previous phase, then a loose ball pops his way and he grabs and passes it, whilst still on the floor. What specifically law states he can't do this? I've had a look but I'm struggling to find something. There are quite a few laws you can infer this is incorrect from (tackle law for example) but I can't find anything that essentially says if you're off your feet (in open play) you're out of the game.

 

[Rushforth]

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=14

 

[didds]

This could run and run....

didds

 

[Phil E]

This could run and run....

didds

Unlike the player off his feet :tongue:

 

[crossref]

say for example a player is on the floor having completed a tackle in the previous phase, then a loose ball pops his way and he grabs and passes it, whilst still on the floor. What specifically law states he can't do this? I've had a look but I'm struggling to find something. .

this is a hole in the Laws and there are two camps

- one camp says he is out of the game cannot play the ball; he must get to his feet before he can play the ball
- the other camp says that as he is on the ground he has the options in 14.1 - ie pass it or get up with it.

you have to make up your own mind

 

[Paule23]

Thanks, not sure why I could not find Law 14, pretty clear it's there!

So, clear in law you can't tackle, a possible grey area if the ball heads you way whilst you are on the floor, say you grab it, then interpretation is either a) this is not allowed, penalise or b) they have options from 14.1 (release, pass etc).

Pay your money, take your choice.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Rushforth]

clear in law you can't tackle

Yet somewhat buried all the same. The tackle part is perhaps the only one which is potentially dangerous; as a coach I dislike introducing tackles by kneeling players to anything but small children.

The ball arriving at a player who is "already getting up" can be taken either way, and is generally safe. Easy penalty if there is a player on his feet contesting the ball without flopping all over it.

 

[didds]

as a coach I dislike introducing tackles by kneeling players to anything but small children.

FTR, the RFU "Rugby Ready" course which is a prerequisite to its formal "Level 1" and "level2" courses (now having far grander names FWTW!) has dropped the on-the-knees part of the tackle continuum.

didds

 

[Dixie]

As Crossref says, there is a hole in the laws. In dealing with it, we need to try to achieve consistency by trying to consider all the possible scenarios that might apply. Let me offer these for consideration ...

Muddy day. Blue desperately defending their line. A ruck forms just short of the line and ...

a) a Blue ex-rucker, on the deck, has rolled clear and is onside by virtue of being behind the goal line. The ball squirts out, straight into his arms. He grounds it making it dead. Restart?

b) same scenario as a), but the ball squirts out 50cm away from our man, and he stretches out and grounds the ball. Restart?

c) Red 8 picks from the base, is tackled on the line, passes inside to Red 6 who crosses the line but fumbles backwards. Red 8, still on the deck after the tackle, reaches out and grounds the ball. Decision?

d) Same as c), but Blue 7 (who had tackled Red 8) reaches out and grounds the ball fractionally before Red 8 can get his hand to it.

e) Same scenario as d), but Red 7, on his feet, is denied the opportunity to ground the ball by Blue 7's action.

 

[Phil E]

As Crossref says, there is a hole in the laws. In dealing with it, we need to try to achieve consistency by trying to consider all the possible scenarios that might apply. Let me offer these for consideration ...

Muddy day. Blue desperately defending their line. A ruck forms just short of the line and ...

a) a Blue ex-rucker, on the deck, has rolled clear and is onside by virtue of being behind the goal line. The ball squirts out, straight into his arms. He grounds it making it dead. Restart?

b) same scenario as a), but the ball squirts out 50cm away from our man, and he stretches out and grounds the ball. Restart?

c) Red 8 picks from the base, is tackled on the line, passes inside to Red 6 who crosses the line but fumbles backwards. Red 8, still on the deck after the tackle, reaches out and grounds the ball. Decision?

d) Same as c), but Blue 7 (who had tackled Red 8) reaches out and grounds the ball fractionally before Red 8 can get his hand to it.

e) Same scenario as d), but Red 7, on his feet, is denied the opportunity to ground the ball by Blue 7's action.

All of those take place in-goal, outside the field of play, where you also can't have a ruck or a maul or a scrum or a tackle.
It doesn't compare to the OP which was inside the field of play.
Apples and Oranges.

 

[crossref]

All of those take place in-goal, outside the field of play, where you also can't have a ruck or a maul or a scrum or a tackle.
It doesn't compare to the OP which was inside the field of play.
Apples and Oranges.

so on that basis would you let a player on the ground in the in-goal reach up and tackle a player passing with the ball?

[LAWS]d)
A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.[/LAWS]

ie does that apply in-goal? (to me it does)

 

[crossref]

blue player is cleared out of a ruck and ends up on the ground, on his side of the ruck, behind back feet. so onside

to keep out of his scrum-half's way he remains on the ground but the ball unexpectedly comes out of the back of the ruck, straight to him, he grabs it and pop-passes it back to his scrum-half...

 

[Phil E]

so on that basis would you let a player on the ground in the in-goal reach up and tackle a player passing with the ball?

[LAWS]d)
A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.[/LAWS]

ie does that apply in-goal? (to me it does)

No it doesn't apply in-goal.
That would not be a tackle.

[LAWS]15.1 WHERE CAN A TACKLE TAKE PLACE
A tackle can only take place in the field of play.[/LAWS]

 

[crossref]

good answer!

 

[crossref]

blue player is winded after a tackle and lying on ground on his own 5m line, play is further upfield on blue 22m

red grubber kick, and ball happens to come towards him with red chaser in hot pursuit. Still lying on the ground, he turns onto his side and manages to toe poke the ball into touch.

 

[Dickie E]

blue player is winded after a tackle and lying on ground on his own 5m line, play is further upfield on blue 22m

red grubber kick, and ball happens to come towards him with red chaser in hot pursuit. Still lying on the ground, he turns onto his side and manages to toe poke the ball into touch.

play on

 

[Dickie E]

blue player is cleared out of a ruck and ends up on the ground, on his side of the ruck, behind back feet. so onside

to keep out of his scrum-half's way he remains on the ground but the ball unexpectedly comes out of the back of the ruck, straight to him, he grabs it and pop-passes it back to his scrum-half...

play on

 

[Rich_NL]

I had this in an early match; as it was, I hesitated before blowing and ended up playing advantage. It felt like an offence, but looking through the laws it seems quite clearly and expressly permitted to pop the ball up if it rolls to you on the ground (law 14.1). I checked with some more senior refs and there was a discussion but they agreed... Since then I've allowed it.

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]14.1[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] Players on the ground[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular](a)

A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:


[/FONT]

• Get up with the ball
• Pass the ball
• Release the ball.

This doesn't cover knocking the ball into touch, interfering with players on their feet or anything else.

 

[crossref]

the thing is, you have quoted only part of the Law. The full Law is this, and the defintions are important

[LAWS]
14 Ball on the ground No Tackle

DEFINITIONS
This situation occurs when the ball is available on the ground and a player goes to ground to gather the ball, except immediately after a scrum or a ruck.
It also occurs when a player is on the ground in possession of the ball and has not been tackled.
The Game is to be played by players who are on their feet. A player must not make the ball unplayable by falling down. Unplayable means that the ball is not immediately available to either team so that play may continue.
A player who makes the ball unplayable, or who obstructs the opposing team by falling down, is negating the purpose and Spirit of the Game and must be penalised.
A player who is not tackled, but who goes to ground while holding the ball, or a player who goes to ground and gathers the ball, must act immediately.
14.1 Players on the ground
(a)
A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:
Get up with the ball
Pass the ball
Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(b)
A player who passes or releases the ball must also get up or move away from it at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(c)
A player without the ball must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents getting possession of it.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d)
A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

So the Law is written with the expectation that a player has gone to ground to with the ball, or has gone to ground to get possession of the ball.

the question is : does this also apply when a player is on the ground for some other reason, and the ball happens to come to him.

 

[Dickie E]

the question is : does this also apply when a player is on the ground for some other reason, and the ball happens to come to him.

[LAWS]A player who is not tackled, but who goes to ground while holding the ball, or a player who goes to ground and gathers the ball, must act immediately.[/LAWS]

Seems crystal to me.