Quick tap and pass to runner

Decorily

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that is weird - I mean first I hardly ever see a PK that is tapped (other than tap-and-go-yourself which is common).
Very occasionally a team will do a tap PK, but mostly a big lump just takes it into contact. Sometimes a 9 might tap a and pass to big lump who is just starting to lumber.

I don't think I can remember ever seeing a big lump coming from a distance at speed to receive a tap-and-pass.

Wonder why are our experiences so different?
Well I suppose we're back to how we interpret /define speed and distance in terms of "big lumps"!
 

crossref


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i mean I hardly ever see tap and pass anyway - but when I do the recipient perhaps starts moving as the 9 taps, ..... so might have taken 1 or 2 steps when they get the ball. So definitely not a charge.
 

Locke


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I have teams take a tap PK many times per game but rarely see the “charge”. I had one instance of a single runner charge in my game this past Saturday. First one I’ve had in probably a year. I wasn’t confident if it was legal or not and let it go when no defenders complained. If it was multiple runners charging, I would have (incorrectly) called it back.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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i mean I hardly ever see tap and pass anyway - but when I do the recipient perhaps starts moving as the 9 taps, ..... so might have taken 1 or 2 steps when they get the ball. So definitely not a charge.
I must have had at least 10 on Saturday. I see them every week.
 

crossref


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I must have had at least 10 on Saturday. I see them every week.
Are we talking about the same thing?

Scrum half taps and runs .. yes all the time

Scrum half taps and immediately passes .. pretty rare but does sometimes happen

Players runs from a distance to build up speed, scrum half taps and passes to him ?
I haven't seen that for years
 

Ciaran Trainor


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In this instance yes.
I wouldn't say running from great distance, teams aren't fit enough, but both teams keen to get on with it after minor infringements and rather than kick for touch, Tap and pass to get over gain line and not always the 9.
I knew both teams well and both had players out of their regular positions from the start as injuries and unavailability had mounted up.
 

Stu10


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In this instance yes.
I wouldn't say running from great distance, teams aren't fit enough, but both teams keen to get on with it after minor infringements and rather than kick for touch, Tap and pass to get over gain line and not always the 9.
I knew both teams well and both had players out of their regular positions from the start as injuries and unavailability had mounted up.

That sounds a bit different... I think in the OP, the tap has not been quick, rather a planned move in which everyone gets organised then a designated runner gets up to full speed, then the ball is tapped and passed to that runner who crashes in.
 

crossref


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on saturday I am going to try and count !

buckets - with *predicted* percentages

- kick to touch 70%
- quick-tap-and-run 15%
- shot 10%
- scrum 5%
- other planned move 0%

if I manage to keep count I'll come back and report what the actual %tage were
 

Mipper


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on saturday I am going to try and count !

buckets - with *predicted* percentages

- kick to touch 70%
- quick-tap-and-run 15%
- shot 10%
- scrum 5%
- other planned move 0%

if I manage to keep count I'll come back and report what the actual %tage were
I did a game on Saturday when one side barely won a single lineout. They were absolutely dominated in the line.

Didn't stop them also kicking around 70% of their PK’s to touch though. Quite bizarre.
 

didds

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I did a game on Saturday when one side barely won a single lineout. They were absolutely dominated in the line.

Didn't stop them also kicking around 70% of their PK’s to touch though. Quite bizarre.
that just displays a lack of game understanding and management, and whatever old heads there are present not being very aware.
Or they were also getting lullahed in the rucks and mauls so fifgured 40m to touch and losing the ball is better thajn a 5m run and lose the ball ;-)
 

crossref


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on saturday I am going to try and count !

buckets - with *predicted* percentages

- kick to touch 70%
- quick-tap-and-run 15%
- shot at goal 10%
- scrum 5%
- other planned move 0%

if I manage to keep count I'll come back and report what the actual %tage were
So heres the count (to best of my ability)

Kick to touch 13
Quick tap 2
Shot at goal 1
Scrum 2
Other 3

The three others were -
1 they all lined up kick to for touch .. and the 10 tapped and ran (very successfully)
2x all lined up .. and tap and pass to big forward. in both cases all players remained stationary until the PK was tapped
 

crossref


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Newcoach

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On the cavalry charge/running onto the ball front we have been coaching my players to run onto the pass, ie stand still u til the ball leaves the SH hands but be moving as soon as it does. We also coach them to move up the defensive line as soon as the ball leaves the opposition SH hands. We’re coaching U9’s and U10’s.

Should this be penalised? The law does not expressly forbid a cavalry charge and states movement is permitted once the pass is made?
 

Dickie E


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Hi Newcoach, and a warm welcome to the forum.

Unless there are local regulations that specify otherwise I'd be comfortable with both strategies that you've described.
 

Newcoach

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Thanks for having me, and thanks for the reply.

The law around the free pass (used to restart the game) is the same for U9’s & U10’s other than 5.a.ix only apples to U10’s:

5. Free Passes:
a) A free pass is awarded:
i. To start the match at the beginning of each half and following a score, from the centre of the pitch.
ii. After the ball or ball carrier has gone into touch. The free pass is 5 metres from touch, level with where the ball or ball carrier went into touch.
iii. Where there is offside and no advantage.
iv. Where a fend-off or hand-off has been used.
v. When there has been an infringement.
vi. Once forward momentum has been stopped and the ball has not been played away from the contact area - tackle, maul or ruck.
vii. When the tackler makes contact above the armpit.
viii. When a team contests, pushes or strikes for the ball in the scrum.
ix. In the event that a ball carrier uses the “Squeezeball” technique.
Note: Squeezeball” is a technique where the ball carrier goes to ground, head forward (touching or close to the ground), irrespective of immediate contact with opponents, usually keeping parallel to the touchline, holding and protecting the ball close to the chest and, when on the ground, pushing the ball back between the legs.

b) At a free pass, the opposition must be 7 metres back from the mark. At a free pass, the passer must start with the ball in both hands and, when the referee calls “Play”, pass the ball backwards through the air to a member of their team. For safety reasons, no player from either team may run until the pass is made.

For context we were pinged for doing this at the weekend, mostly because of the opposition coaches shouting at the fairly young referee.
 

Phil E


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On the cavalry charge/running onto the ball front we have been coaching my players to run onto the pass, ie stand still u til the ball leaves the SH hands but be moving as soon as it does. We also coach them to move up the defensive line as soon as the ball leaves the opposition SH hands. We’re coaching U9’s and U10’s.

Should this be penalised? The law does not expressly forbid a cavalry charge and states movement is permitted once the pass is made?

U9 and U10 regulations use a free pass for infringements.

At a free pass, the opposition must be 7 metres back from the mark. At a free pass, the passer must start with the ball in both hands and, when the referee calls “Play”, pass the ball backwards through the air to a member of their team. For safety reasons, no player may run until the pass is made.


As long as they don't move until "after" the pass is made (not as it's made), then all good. Once the pass has been made we are back into open play.
 

Stu10


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On the cavalry charge/running onto the ball front we have been coaching my players to run onto the pass, ie stand still u til the ball leaves the SH hands but be moving as soon as it does. We also coach them to move up the defensive line as soon as the ball leaves the opposition SH hands. We’re coaching U9’s and U10’s.

Should this be penalised? The law does not expressly forbid a cavalry charge and states movement is permitted once the pass is made?
It sounds like you are getting it right and teaching excellent habits/tactics.

The aspect of the cavalry charge is that the offense can get up speed while the defence must be stationary prior to the ball being played, which can be seen as an inequality and potentially dangerous. "In the old days" the runner would be at full speed and receive the ball right on the gain line (it was often a transfer rather than a pass), which gave a significant advantage, especially if the penalty/fk was on the 5m line.

Running onto a pass in open play (i.e. after the free pass) is fair, and since it is open play the defence are also allowed to move forward to close the gap between the teams, which can be a significant factor close to the goal line.

I can't fathom what you were penalised for last weekend? Did the referee say players must be stationary until the first receiver catches the pass? Maybe there is contention over the word "made" (no player may run until the pass is made), and whether that constitutes a completed pass or an action only made by the player making the pass... I would say the latter. What if the pass went directly to ground? Here is the definition:

Pass: A player throws or hands the ball to another player.
 

Newcoach

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The lack of “made” as a defined term here is where there is potentially a grey area. I think it is “ball leaves hand” as opposed to “ball leaves hand and is caught”
 

Newcoach

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I can't fathom what you were penalised for last weekend? Did the referee say players must be stationary until the first receiver catches the pass?
Essentially (slightly biased opinion) it was only given as the opposition coaches were shouty/vocal at/with the quite young referee because they didn’t like my lad getting a run on their team.
He’s far from the biggest on the team but he’s switched on and strong.
 

Stu10


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The lack of “made” as a defined term here is where there is potentially a grey area. I think it is “ball leaves hand” as opposed to “ball leaves hand and is caught”

I would agree "ball leaves hand", but just trying to understand what approach your ref last week was applying. Generally speaking, consider that game a one-off and keep going as you are.
 
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