[Law] Red card or not

[Christy]

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/sm...arisse-saw-red-getting-tackled-perpignan/amp/

 

[Christy]

For me its a joke of a decision .
He stood his ground to take an incoming collision.
His body is up right & made no deliberate attempt to shoulder / elbow opponent .
No would i consider it an elbow .
Im sure card will be lifted & rightly so

 

[Taff]

For me its a joke of a decision. He stood his ground to take an incoming collision. His body is up right & made no deliberate attempt to shoulder / elbow opponent. No would i consider it an elbow. Im sure card will be lifted & rightly so

+ 1.

Hell, if that is a Red Card offence there won't be anyone left on the pitch after 20 minutes. :wow:

 

[Flish]

At most, at absolute most he’s leant the shoulder in a bit, but that’s a perfectly normal defensive reaction when you’re about to get hit, there’s nothing to penalise there, or technique by the would be tackler

 

[ChrisR]

Rugby incident. No card. Send Blue to tackle school.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Had to check it was not April 1st. Total nonsense call

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ludicrous decision.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Utterly bizarre. Catcher did noting wrong at all. He defended his head by slightly adjusting his shoulder position and rightly so.
“Tackler” was an openside flanker, what sort of challenge was he putting in? Any #7 would be utterly ashamed of that collision and should be the one apologising... to his own team mates!
Utter nonsense.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Thought it might be interesting to get another perspective.
Just shown the video to my son who plays #7 at U18.
His immediate reaction was that the only person at fault was the challenger for coming in too high.

Having now told him that the catcher was red carded his response was: “What? Who was? You have to be joking! What for?” followed by “Ridiculous! He did nothing!”

 

[Balones]

Incredible! Unbelievable! Agreement on this forum!

 

[SimonSmith]

Some USA referees are advocating PK, or YC.

It's either play on, or straight red.

For me it's play on.

 

[Dickie E]

I hate to be a contrarian but:

was the elbow deliberate? yes, he had a look before raising elbow (albeit instinctively)
was it with force? yes
was it to the head? yes

 

[Ian_Cook]

I hate to be a contrarian

Yeah, right!

but:

was the elbow deliberate? yes, he had a look before raising elbow (albeit instinctively)

Marginal at worst.

was it with force? yes
was it to the head? yes

And all of the force came from the tackler... all of it.

This really is a case of the "victim" smashing his head into his opponent's elbow.

 

[Dickie E]

And all of the force came from the tackler... all of it.

that is totally irrelevant. I've seen plenty of illegal head high coat hanger tackles where all of the force came from the forward momentum of the ball carrier

 

[Marc Wakeham]

that is totally irrelevant. I've seen plenty of illegal head high coat hanger tackles where all of the force came from the forward momentum of the ball carrier

A "coat hanger" tackle is very different from a player bracing for a tackle.

Sorry you introduced to concent of "force":

was it with force? yes
was it to the head? yes

Quite correctly Ian Cook point out that all that force comes from the tackler. The tackled player did not introduce force into the situation (in any way but for a stricly scientific and narrrow sense). All he did was brace for the impact. The avaiability of TMO etc should be stopping these gross errors not compounding them.

And all of the force came from the tackler... all of it.

 

[Christy]

Extract from a news paper .
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/sergio-parisse-red-card-decision-15075084

 

[Rich_NL]

was the elbow deliberate? yes, he had a look before raising elbow (albeit instinctively)
was it with force? yes
was it to the head? yes

The elbow was nowhere near the head, though. Head contact was shoulder, the elbow was around chest height (and rising, not pointed into the chest). I believe the ref gave it for an elbow to the head, but I think this was an error.

 

[Cross]

that is totally irrelevant. I've seen plenty of illegal head high coat hanger tackles where all of the force came from the forward momentum of the ball carrier

How can it be irrelevant?
If that is irrelevant you just need to go head vs shoulder whenever the opponent's team best player has the ball and you'd have him red carded.

You can basically red card opposition players at will.

 

[Balones]

The only thing that is remotely supportive of the decision as far as I can see is that after the intial ‘clash’ Parisse pushes him away with his elbow up and this action does seem to make contact with the throat area. However, in terms of physics this was not done with force but rather as a reaction to the force initially applied by the ‘tackler.

Maybe a PK because of expectation rather than anything really illegal.

 

[crossref]

It's clear to me why Parisse got the red card. I suspect it's clear to everyone .. it's because he deliberately raised his elbow into position to make contact with the head throat area.

Yes, he was taking advantage of the poor posture and great speed of the arriving player , but it was deliberate. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous

Does it deserve a red card ? That's a valid question, but we need to discuss what actually happened .. the deliberate contact with elbow/forearm

This was NOT a rugby accident caused solely by poor technique