Reds vs Waratahs

[dave_clark]

about 20 mins into today's game, a blue player charged down a clearance kick and the ball went into in goal. it was gathered by a blue player and, in the act of touching down for a try, the ball was kicked from his hands by a red player (whether deliberately or accidentally is another matter).

Walsh went to the TMO, who mentioned that the ball was kicked out in the act of grounding. Walsh acknowledged but ignored this (no discussion over deliberate vs accidental), and gave a 22.

is this act illegal? i've had a look through the good book, but can't find.

 

[Taff]

It's in the scoring section from memory.

A defender can pull the ball or the arms of a player trying to score, but isn't allowed to kick the ball from the hands.

 

[didds]

PT

whether accidental or deliberate from the description given an act of dangerous play prevented a probably try.

didds

 

[TimothyQ]

I've seen red cards given for a lot less than the high tackle from Quaide Cooper! Seems to me that the white card was a convenient cop out for Walsh, thoughts?

 

[OB..]

PT

whether accidental or deliberate from the description given an act of dangerous play prevented a probably try.

didds

Law 22.4 (f)

It is possible to argue that this only applies after a tackle, but that does not makes much sense to me. If it is dangerous there, it is also dangerous here.

 

[Taff]

Law 22.4 (f). It is possible to argue that this only applies after a tackle, but that does not makes much sense to me. If it is dangerous there, it is also dangerous here.

As OB says if kicking the ball out of a players hands is Dangerous Play in-goal, it should be dangerous in the field of play, but as was pointed out in a previous thread (I think it was a scrum incident) there isn't a sanction listed for general dangerous play.

I suppose we could rely on 10.4(m) but personally I would like a catch-all PK sanction listed for any general dangerous or reckless play, anywhere.

10.4(m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.
Sanction: Penalty kick

 

[Dickie E]

PT

whether accidental or deliberate from the description given an act of dangerous play prevented a probably try.

didds

If Walsh had awarded a PT for that incident he'd be reffing in the sticks next week

 

[The Fat]

I've seen red cards given for a lot less than the high tackle from Quaide Cooper! Seems to me that the white card was a convenient cop out for Walsh, thoughts?

Nothing will come of the white card referal. High tackle dealt with by YC. In a lot of games may not have even got a YC. To SW's credit, he was on the spot to diffuse reactions from players and with Barnes's history of head problems the reaction of his team mates was understandable. Cooper will play next week.
And for the record, I am a suffering Waratahs supporter so no bias in my comments.

On a side note, anyone know a coach who can teach the 'Tahs to pass the ball in front of their team mates instead of a metre behind? Extremely frustrating season, again.

 

[menace]

At least you were well short of finals, as opposed to brumbies who were on cusp of finals after many years only to play themselves out if them! Now THAT is frustrating. :knuppel2::chair::deadhorse::shrug::wtf::nono::frown::frown::sad::sad::sad:

Made getting a cold wet ass at the game all that extra special. Many wet and despondent brumbies fans went straight home after the game and didn't hang around to celebrate moores 100 games.

 

[The Fat]

At least you were well short of finals, as opposed to brumbies who were on cusp of finals after many years only to play themselves out if them! Now THAT is frustrating. :knuppel2::chair::deadhorse::shrug::wtf::nono::frown::frown::sad::sad::sad:

Made getting a cold wet ass at the game all that extra special. Many wet and despondent brumbies fans went straight home after the game and didn't hang around to celebrate moores 100 games.

Haven't seen the replay of the Brumbies game yet. Did the Blues save their best till last or the Brumbies their worst? I was sure that even if they were beaten, they would manage a losing bonus point. At least you have had plenty to enjoy throughout the season where as the Waratahs have seemed clueless. Not good enough for a team with 11 Wallabies. Combination of attitude, laziness at training (false belief in rock star image that strutting around the cafes of Bondi, Coogee and Paddington apparently engenders) and a coach who is more a master of spin than of preparing a team. I wonder if Hooper still believes he has made the right career move?
Well done to the Brumbies. After last year, no-one except Jake White would have pictured them getting this far so quickly.

 

[Dickie E]

Re. Tahs v. Reds.

There was another feature of the game that I found of interest. On at least 3 occasions the kick-off/restarts did not travel the full 10 metres - more like 9 metres. Given that nothing happens by accident at this level I wonder if this is an intentional ploy to "force" the receiving team to catch the ball under more pressure (in 2 of the 3 instances the receiver knocked on). The alternative the receivers have is to let the ball bounce over the 10 metre line which would be ill-advised.

This is a good strategy by the kicking team as there is little downside. If the receivers play the ball it is play on (advantage doesn't apply in this case). If the receivers let in bounce, they are playing Russian roulette.

But is this reward for intentionally offending?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Re. Tahs v. Reds.

There was another feature of the game that I found of interest. On at least 3 occasions the kick-off/restarts did not travel the full 10 metres - more like 9 metres. Given that nothing happens by accident at this level I wonder if this is an intentional ploy to "force" the receiving team to catch the ball under more pressure (in 2 of the 3 instances the receiver knocked on). The alternative the receivers have is to let the ball bounce over the 10 metre line which would be ill-advised.

This is a good strategy by the kicking team as there is little downside. If the receivers play the ball it is play on (advantage doesn't apply in this case). If the receivers let in bounce, they are playing Russian roulette.

But is this reward for intentionally offending?

Well spotted Dickie, noticed that too, and I saw it a couple of times in the first half of the Crusaders v Force match

The problem with PKing that is that if the ball looks like it will make the distance after bouncing, you would be pre-empting things.

IMO, the referees have been a bit slack this SR season on keeping the members of the kicking team behind the line until after the ball is kicked, and I would certainly expect a referee who saw the short kickoff being used as a ploy, to enforce law 13.3 rigidly.

 

[menace]

Haven't seen the replay of the Brumbies game yet. Did the Blues save their best till last or the Brumbies their worst? I was sure that even if they were beaten, they would manage a losing bonus point. At least you have had plenty to enjoy throughout the season where as the Waratahs have seemed clueless. Not good enough for a team with 11 Wallabies. Combination of attitude, laziness at training (false belief in rock star image that strutting around the cafes of Bondi, Coogee and Paddington apparently engenders) and a coach who is more a master of spin than of preparing a team. I wonder if Hooper still believes he has made the right career move?
Well done to the Brumbies. After last year, no-one except Jake White would have pictured them getting this far so quickly.

I hadn't seen blues play during the year but heard they were disorganised all season, but their defence was really good and their attacking option looked well drilled and plentiful. Brumbies fell off tackles and that's what cost them most. from my vintage point it looked like brumbies were playing for 1 point rather than the win! They looked cautious in attack except for 15mins in the first half and were almost lost in defence. So I don't know if blues were all that great but brumbies made them look like they were!

 

[OB..]

But is this reward for intentionally offending?

Since the law does not require the ball to travel the 10m in the air, it is difficult to decide it is an offence to land it 9m out.

 

[Davet]

But is this reward for intentionally offending?

But it only beciomes an offence if it fails to travel 10 altogether, AND provided the oppositon don't play it.

It's strikes me as cleve option that is perfectly leagsl and forces choices on the opposition - which is good rugby.

But the kicker needs to be sure the ball will travel, try it on a British pitch in the middle of January and the most likely outcome is a soft "gloop" sort of sound and the ball laying precisely where it landed, and looking rather pathetic.

 

[Dickie E]

in the incidents I've seen the ball would likely have alighted over the 10 metre line

 

[Davet]

Doesn't really matter. If the opposition are trapped into playing it short then they give up possession at the scrum.

 

[TheBFG]

Nothing will come of the white card referal. High tackle dealt with by YC. In a lot of games may not have even got a YC. To SW's credit, he was on the spot to diffuse reactions from players and with Barnes's history of head problems the reaction of his team mates was understandable. Cooper will play next week.
And for the record, I am a suffering Waratahs supporter so no bias in my comments.

On a side note, anyone know a coach who can teach the 'Tahs to pass the ball in front of their team mates instead of a metre behind? Extremely frustrating season, again.

Looks like you spoke too soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xghWXPd4tZM&feature=player_embedded

 

[Taff]

... It's strikes me as cleve option that is perfectly leagsl and forces choices on the opposition - which is good rugby.

A good move as long as the kicking team have the discipline to leave the ball alone till its gone over the 10m line.

 

[TNT88]

I thought that was an obvious penalty try, (which the TMO did imply), but Walsh didn't seem to want any of it. Will we see a correction or something? You can't kick the ball out of someone's hands, especially to stop a try being scored. (for which there is a specific law for). And pro players should know they can't deliberately use their feet to stop a try.