Reds vs Waratahs

[crossref]

the way I saw it, first time round it seemed to me
- he did kick it out of his hands
- I wasn't at all sure it was deliberate, and felt he deserved benefit of doubt, so let's go with instinctive or accidental

kicking ball from ball carrier's hands in goal is a penalty and therefore a PT
YC just seems harsh

 

[menace]

Fair enough - so if I instinctively throw my arm out to tackle the ball carrier that wrong footed me and coat-hanger a player I shouldn't expect to be yc on the grounds it was instinctive?

I get your point about deliberate but for mine, if I'm thinking of awarding a pt for kicking the ball out, no matter how instinctive the kick, he's also going to the bin.

 

[OB..]

If I had recorded a game and found out before I watched it that it had finished 18-12, all from penalty kicks, I would not even bother to waste my time watching it at all.

When I want to see a goal-kicking exhibition, I'll go down to the local park on Tuesday night training and watch our goal-kicker practising.

1959
British Lions 17 Don Clarke 18.

 

[crossref]

Fair enough - so if I instinctively throw my arm out to tackle the ball carrier that wrong footed me and coat-hanger a player I shouldn't expect to be yc on the grounds it was instinctive?

.

yes, that's a fair point - but on the other hand if a player were to headbutt an opponent I think we'd all agree it was a RC, but this doesn't cause any difficulty when there's a (not uncommon) accidental clash of heads that knocks one or both players to the ground. No one thinks we have to RC someone for that. this involves a similar judgement: was it accidental or deliberate.

 

[OB..]

Fair enough - so if I instinctively throw my arm out to tackle the ball carrier that wrong footed me and coat-hanger a player I shouldn't expect to be yc on the grounds it was instinctive?

I get your point about deliberate but for mine, if I'm thinking of awarding a pt for kicking the ball out, no matter how instinctive the kick, he's also going to the bin.

Extract from Ruling 9 of 2004
[LAWS]If a penalty try is awarded as the result of a player unintentionally offending, the player, as well as being liable to cautioning and temporary suspension or send off, can be admonished by the referee.
Examples of this may be after penalty tries resulting from:
· mistimed tackle (early or late, but not dangerous)
· unintentional reactionary high tackle, but not dangerous.[/LAWS]
The emphasis is in the original.

 

[Davet]

Menace - not going to argue too much - I think there are a number of occasions where players need to learn to curb their instincts - but I was really addressing Crossref's worry about a PT automatically requiring a YC.

 

[Coach Klein]

Does not look accidental to me. Surprised that Walsh chooses to ignore the TMO comment of "In the act of scoring the try, the ball was kicked". Walsh should have taken the hint! Walsh's silence midway through his next sentence makes me think that he very briefly realised the implication, but chose not to go down that route of considering Penalty Try. I would be furious if I were the side denied a penalty try here.

 

[crossref]

Does not look accidental to me. Surprised that Walsh chooses to ignore the TMO comment of "In the act of scoring the try, the ball was kicked". Walsh should have taken the hint! Walsh's silence midway through his next sentence makes me think that he very briefly realised the implication, but chose not to go down that route of considering Penalty Try. I would be furious if I were the side denied a penalty try here.

they weren't furious though...

 

[Phil E]

they weren't furious though...

Maybe they were seething silently inside?

 

[Coach Klein]

they weren't furious though...

Do they have to appeal then?!

 

[Ian_Cook]

1959
British Lions 17 Don Clarke 18.

British Lions scored four tries, and under today's scoring system, the score would be 25-18 to the Lions

 

[Ian_Cook]

Sounds like you just described an England vs Scotland game?

fixed that for you

 

[OB..]

British Lions scored four tries, and under today's scoring system, the score would be 25-18 to the Lions

I know that, and you know that, but Don Clarke didn't. The New Zealanders at the time rejoiced in the win, regardless of the manner. Don't overplay your hand.

 

[menace]

Extract from Ruling 9 of 2004
[LAWS]If a penalty try is awarded as the result of a player unintentionally offending, the player, as well as being liable to cautioning and temporary suspension or send off, can be admonished by the referee.
Examples of this may be after penalty tries resulting from:
· mistimed tackle (early or late, but not dangerous)
· unintentional reactionary high tackle, but not dangerous.[/LAWS]
The emphasis is in the original.

Thanks OB - useful context that admonishment can be used with a PT. i only starting refereeing in 2009 so i hadn't seen this one.

 

[menace]

Menace - not going to argue too much - I think there are a number of occasions where players need to learn to curb their instincts - but I was really addressing Crossref's worry about a PT automatically requiring a YC.

Yes my Apologies - I was being a little cheeky and disengenuine with my example. Also OBs post on the ruling helped clear it up.

But I'm still of the opinion that the example was an accidental knock out by the foot..not a kick..and if I had the gumption to go pt for a kick out then I'd more than likely go YC too even if it was somewhat instinctive kick. It seems I'm out of kilter with many on this.

 

[Dickie E]

It seems I'm out of kilter with many on this.

mate, you, me & Walshie (who makes a living doing this stuff). Lets see what sarefs make of it when they get around to it.

 

[Davet]

Lets see what sarefs make of it

Judging by previous efforts, a pig's ear seems most likely.