Relaxing Standards for Friendly Games?

[Donal1988]

I refereed a good level match last night between a touring English side and the home Irish team. I finished the match with 2 reds and 2 yellows.

In the opening quarter one of the Irish players dropped his shoulder and smashed into a guy after he made a tackle. He used his elbow for extra effect and the tackle was late. He got a yellow card and home team got a stern warning.

15 mins later, he was the victim of a dangerous tip tackle (we won't open that can of worms) who shouted "how you f*#king like that" to him after. I red carded the offending player, called both captains over and told them in no uncertain terms that was to be it from the dangerous tackling. We had no more dangerous tackles for the rest of game from either side.

I don't know what was said at half time but in second half I had a stream of backchat from the away team. I'm not exaggerating when I say that every second penalty decision was questioned and they shipped a penalty for backchat and a warning. I yellow carded the captain when he asked "Sir, you'll need to explain why you give them longer to release and the breakdown than you do us", and whilst he was gone the stand in captain (who informed me he is on the books at Wasps) described a penalty as "absolutely f*#cing ridiculous" and refused to go back 10m. He got a yellow also and when he refused to leave and called me a cheating w*#ker" he got it upgraded to a red card.

The coach after the match said he understood my decisions but that I could have showed some leniency towards his boys due to tour (i.e. given the option of a sub or gone yellow instead of red). He claims he knows refs who would have done so.

Whats the reckoning on this?

 

[Toby Warren]

These are tough games to do, when they are good they are great but they can go to a nightmare really quickly.

One option to consider at the first act of foul play why did you let the player carry on? I'd have been tempted not to issue a YC (assuming it was yellow only not a red) and tell the coach that that players day was done.

It don't think that it was coincdence that the first offender was the second victim.

 

[Donal1988]

Hi Toby,

Thanks for the reply. Yea I could have done that. At time it seemed fine. He left the park without dissent came back on, and apart from a brief chat about staying on feet, had no problems from him. I thought nothing of it up until the spear type challenge.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Referee the same as usual, and ensure you get compliance to your preventative calls ands if not clamp down with PKs then escalating to warnings and Ycs.

Sounds a bit as if you let it all get away at the start of the second half, and had to play catch up to get control.

Of course the attitude of the away side was poor and casude the problems in the first place.

 

[Dixie]

Donal, did you point out to the coach that when Wales was on tour recently in New Zealand, your colleague Alain Rolland red carded their skipper too? If it's good enough for him ....

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

So have the red cards been reported and to what body?
Asdsume they were yopung players

 

[Donal1988]

Dixie - I didn't bring up Warburtons red. I am forever telling players to forget what they say on tv. I feel I'd be making a rod for my own back with that. I could justify the card easily enough without it.

Ctrainor - I haven't reported the card as a) I have no team sheet as it was a friendly, b) my local branch cannot sanction an English player. The Irish team only had a yellow.

And it was a Colts game.

 

[4eyesbetter]

Sod 'em. If they want to use being on tour as an excuse to be w*nkers, they can wait until they've finished playing.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Dixie - I didn't bring up Warburtons red. I am forever telling players to forget what they say on tv. I feel I'd be making a rod for my own back with that. I could justify the card easily enough without it.

Ctrainor - I haven't reported the card as a) I have no team sheet as it was a friendly, b) my local branch cannot sanction an English player. The Irish team only had a yellow.

And it was a Colts game.

No but you (or IRFU) should send the dimissal to RFU who will act on it, or at the very least to the club (all have web sites and email contacts) ! It has been done in the past for Wales (Colt) and Ireland (adult) tours and I have sat on the Hampshire Disciplinary that banned them in line with IRB tarrif

 

[Donal1988]

It seems I have relaxed my standards so. I didn't collect team sheets and don't have a player name.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Always ask for the player's name at time of YC or RC, and for RC confirm with skipper - "time is off" so no need to rush.

 

[Phil E]

There's no such thing as a friendly.

 

[Donal1988]

I know Simon. I didn't do that as I was unaware a RC in this circumstance could be penalised.

 

[crossref]

There's no such thing as a friendly.

I agree with that. At age group levels from u13 upwards about a third of the games are league, and two thirds are 'friendles' in the sense of simply being by arrangment with the clubs.

the only differences I can think of comes in ..

- length of the game (eg may play 3x20 instead of 2x30)
- number of subs (may be unlimited)
- approach to TJs, eg I will accept a keen 14 yr old sub for a friendly, not for a league game
- no max points differential

but on the field I think they are reffed just the same

 

[SimonSmith]

He went with the elbow?

I think I can sense where it started to go wrong...

 

[Davet]

A late tackle leading with the elbow - I would have suggested that most players might expect a red card. You gave the home team a yellow for foul play and then the away team a red for foul play. Hindsight is a great thing, but it may be the trouble started there, with the tourists thinking you were a "homer". From their comments later in the game it does seem as though they had that perception, however wrongly. They clearly hadn't picked up on the difference between the offences.

Friendlies with a touring side can be great fun, but you need to ref as any other game. Just because it was not a league game doesn't mean it is not competitive. Until relatively recently ALL games were "friendlies", but don't for a second think that they were played between friends. It may be thst you entered into the game with the intention of having good friendly, not too serious game. It can develop that way, but only if you ref hard at the start.

You will not get team sheets at friendlies, but if you issue a card, especially a red card, then you must get the players name at the time you issue the card, because it must be reported through channels.

 

[Drift]

I did a tour game the other day, I went out and did exactly the same thing that I do in every other game and we had a very high standard game. I reckon it's all laid out in the pre-match how the game will go. If you are as serious as every other match it will be a good game, if there are jokes happening etc the players will try and take advantage of that.

 

[TigerCraig]

Until relatively recently ALL games were "friendlies"

Not here they weren't :aus:

 

[Pinky]

Sometimes you need to allow for the fact it is a touring side, but I agree with the general tennet that you should not relax refereeing foul play. So you might allow a refreshment break (and participate if invited) and it might be an idea to laugh if the receiving side all lie down shouting "incoming" at the kick-off.

I ref'd a touring side and at the end of the game was tackled to the ground by the no8 an all the other players then dived on top, including the two subs. When I told my society, they suggested I should have reported the incident. I had reported the incident to the appropriate authorities - in this case Mrs P, as the team were Dutch ladies, most of them blond and in their twenties. ;o)

 

[crossref]

You self - cited that you were involved in a potential RC incident
What was the finding, and what sanctions did Mrs P apply ?