RWC 2023

[Phil E]

Ref Watch: In defence of Matthew Carley

A brilliant game of rugby came to a breathless conclusion in Bordeaux when Semi Radrada just failed to hang on to a difficult...

www.rugbypass.com

Not a bad article ... but I still think Fiji were hard done by

I read it, they missed out a few pertinent facts.

 

[crossref]

I read it, they missed out a few pertinent facts.

...which were

 

[BikingBud]

Ugo says:

• Decisions totally out of kilter.
• Imbalance of distribution of cards
• Leniency towards Wales
• Don't need 3 or 4 penalties, 2 of which were cynical automatic yellow cards before you brandish a yellow card.

And I have to agree, Biggar was one such event.

 

[Stu10]

Ref Watch: In defence of Matthew Carley

A brilliant game of rugby came to a breathless conclusion in Bordeaux when Semi Radrada just failed to hang on to a difficult...

www.rugbypass.com

Not a bad article ... but I still think Fiji were hard done by

There may have only been 4 penalties awarded in that period of 56 to 62 minutes, but there were about 8 infringements. It seemed like once the ref's arm was out, Wales were thinking "in for a penny, in for a pound" and spent the rest of the passage constantly offside and slowing the ball.

 

[BikingBud]

There may have only been 4 penalties awarded in that period of 56 to 62 minutes, but there were about 8 infringements. It seemed like once the ref's arm was out, Wales were thinking "in for a penny, in for a pound" and spent the rest of the passage constantly offside and slowing the ball.

Even more reason to ensure that the card is proffered when the advantage does not not materialise. Perhaps even stepping in sooner when the behaviour is obviously cynical.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Ugo says:

• 
  
• Don't need 3 or 4 penalties, 2 of which were cynical automatic yellow cards before you brandish a yellow card.

This is a big one. The Fiji YC was for a single cynical offence. Why not the same Wales (the percieved tier one side)?

How many time do we tell sides.: "There does not have to be repeated offences for cards to be issued"? This again undermines all the rest of us referees.

 

[crossref]

Ref Watch: In defence of Matthew Carley

A brilliant game of rugby came to a breathless conclusion in Bordeaux when Semi Radrada just failed to hang on to a difficult...

www.rugbypass.com

Not a bad article ... but I still think Fiji were hard done by

For me that rugbypass article is an excellent explanation of how and why Carley went wrong

(We should also bear in mind that rugbypass is owned by world rugby)

 

[number11]

Is there a guide anywhere on when and how to issue yellows? I'm currently going on what I feel, but some guidelines would help (especially when explaining in the bar after the game!)

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Is there a guide anywhere on when and how to issue yellows? I'm currently going on what I feel, but some guidelines would help (especially when explaining in the bar after the game!)

What does your society say?

 

[didds]

Is there a guide anywhere on when and how to issue yellows? I'm currently going on what I feel, but some guidelines would help (especially when explaining in the bar after the game!)

BWA HA HA HA!!! HOOO HOO HOO! STOP IT - MY RIBS!!!!

seriously - your society/NGB would be the place to issue these IF they exist.

the issue however is that there will be so much context etc placed on them.
We've now already seen in the space of a week a YC for a maul collapse < 5m from the with no previous, and no YC for a maul collapse < 5m from the line - with immediate previous in the 22.

The above is not to start a debate on those two incidents I hasten to add - just an indication that if there isn't any "hard and fast" guides available to the game's global showcase, then I doubt there will be down at eg level 9.

 

[belladonna]

This is a big one. The Fiji YC was for a single cynical offence. Why not the same Wales (the percieved tier one side)?

How many time do we tell sides.: "There does not have to be repeated offences for cards to be issued"? This again undermines all the rest of us referees.

Which Wales offence(s) did you consider cynical?

 

[didds]

Which Wales offence(s) did you consider cynical?

the stand out one for me was Biggar grabbing the Fiji s/half as he went to clear the ball from a ruck near the tryline/posts. thats not to say there werent others

 

[belladonna]

the stand out one for me was Biggar grabbing the Fiji s/half as he went to clear the ball from a ruck near the tryline/posts. thats not to say there werent others

Do you have a time for that incident?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

From the clips I've seen quite a few. but as didds says the Biggar one is a stand out.

 

[Stu10]

Which Wales offence(s) did you consider cynical?

Game clock times:

58:48 Wales offside, outside 22. Penalty kick to corner, Fiji lineout 10m from Wales try line
59:13 Penalty against Wales #16 for offside, 5m from try line
59:30 Advantage Fiji, Biggar (always) offside at the ruck, 2m from try line, tackles Fiji #9 at back of ruck as he picks the ball
60:05 No advantage, penalty awarded. Fiji elect to scrum 5m out under the posts
60:12 Several Welsh backs offside, Biggar 1m behind the scrum. Scrum reset.
60:50 Free kick at the scrum against Wales (not sure, early engage?)
60:55 Fiji tackled 1m from try line, Wales #10 and #19 offside (advance before ball out) - not sanctioned
61:10 Penalty advantage, Wales off feet
61:32 Wales offside, no advantage, penalty and warning
61:55 Fiji knock on over the line.

In the red zone, 3x offside (additional 2x overlooked), 1x scrum free kick, 1x off feet at tackle/ruck.

 

[didds]

Game clock times:

58:48 Wales offside, outside 22. Penalty kick to corner, Fiji lineout 10m from Wales try line
59:13 Penalty against Wales #16 for offside, 5m from try line
59:30 Advantage Fiji, Biggar (always) offside at the ruck, 2m from try line, tackles Fiji #9 at back of ruck at he picks the ball
60:05 No advantage, penalty awarded. Fiji elect to scrum 5m out under the posts
60:12 Several Welsh backs offside, Biggar 1m behind the scrum. Scrum reset.
60:50 Free kick at the scrum against Wales (not sure, early engage?)
60:55 Fiji tackled 1m from try line, Wales #10 and #19 offside (advance before ball out) - not sanctioned
61:10 Penalty advantage, Wales off feet
61:32 Wales offside, no advantage, penalty and warning
61:55 Fiji knock on over the line.

In the red zone, 3x offside (additional 2x overlooked), 1x scrum free kick, 1x off feet at tackle/ruck.

seven offences, In three minutes of game time....

ouch.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

seven offences, In three minutes of game time....

ouch.

3 of them Dan Biggar!

 

[didds]

3 of them Dan Biggar!

must be accidental then.

 

[didds]

accepting that the above is without further context (etc etc caveats ad nauseum ...) - thats a damming summary.

Who or what of is open to conjecture maybe, but it seems pretty damning overall...

 

[belladonna]

Game clock times:

58:48 Wales offside, outside 22. Penalty kick to corner, Fiji lineout 10m from Wales try line
59:13 Penalty against Wales #16 for offside, 5m from try line
59:30 Advantage Fiji, Biggar (always) offside at the ruck, 2m from try line, tackles Fiji #9 at back of ruck at he picks the ball
60:05 No advantage, penalty awarded. Fiji elect to scrum 5m out under the posts
60:12 Several Welsh backs offside, Biggar 1m behind the scrum. Scrum reset.
60:50 Free kick at the scrum against Wales (not sure, early engage?)
60:55 Fiji tackled 1m from try line, Wales #10 and #19 offside (advance before ball out) - not sanctioned
61:10 Penalty advantage, Wales off feet
61:32 Wales offside, no advantage, penalty and warning
61:55 Fiji knock on over the line.

In the red zone, 3x offside (additional 2x overlooked), 1x scrum free kick, 1x off feet at tackle/ruck.

Thanks for this To be fair, I remember feeling sure that when the try was disallowed, it would go back for penalty and YC as there had been so many infringements in the red zone. And Wales would have been wishing they'd just given away a try. But I can't say I agree that any of them were cynical, in terms of deserving of an immediate YC on their own.