SA - Aus (2012-09-29)

[Dickie E]

Robbie, this is my view:

A, 10m law offences
1, Defence offside under the 10m law and still advancing prior to ball going into touch. Penalty: Law 11.1(a) & 11.3(a)
2, Defence Offside under the 10m law but standing still prior to ball going into touch. Penalty: Law 11.3(a) but could be managed.
3, Defence offside under the 10m law, but retreating until ball goes into touch. Play On

B, In front of kicker Offsides
1, Defence Infront of kicker, advancing prior to ball going into touch. . Penalty: Law 11.1(a)
2, Defence in front of kicker, standing still until ball goes into touch. Play On
3, Defence in front of kicker, standing still until put onside by a team mate. Play On

 

[Dickie E]

At 6 minutes in the SA v NZ game which Rolland also did, a whole bunch of offside All Blacks remain still until the ball goes into touch, and then advance forward, one of them clearly preventing a QT.

So, did Rolland get the word not to penalise this, or did he just miss this one?

well they didn't advance until ball was in touch. Therefore play on

 

[damo]

well they didn't advance until ball was in touch. Therefore play on

It was my understanding that this was the same as the incident the week before which was penalised. Hence my question.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Well I asked the question of the Duty Ref at SaReferees (Jon Kaplan)

I am surprised by the answer (I have posted the previous question as well, because he refers to it).

5. Name: Deon Eckhart
Question: In the Australia vs Boks game on Saturday the Boks clear their line and the ball was kicked into touch, the players in front of the kicker move to the line-out position and stop a quick throw.

The referee gave a penalty for offside. Surely as the ball is dead the offside rule does not apply? I was confused by this call.


Jonathan Kaplan: I am in agreement with you on this one. Technically the ball is out when it touches something outside the field of play or when the assistant referee raises his flag.

In reality, sometimes this does not happen quickly enough, but the ball is clearly out for all to see. In the case you mentioned, the ball was clearly going out and the player was entitled to approach the line of touch. Furthermore it could be argued that if the penalty is correct, then there are thousands of incidents similar which are not correctly refereed, and I am sure this is not the intent of the law.


6. Name Ian Cook

Question: Hello In the 10th minute of the Australia v South Africa match, referee Alain Rolland penalised Green 6 for offside (under 10m Law?) even though the ball had gone into touch and an Australian player had made a quick throw in.

I understand that this is something new from the IRB this season. Could you please explain and expand on this?


Jonathan Kaplan: Same answer as above. I am not aware of any IRB iniatives here and would be surprised if there was one.

 

[OB..]

the ball was clearly going out and the player was entitled to approach the line of touch.

What if it is not clear that the ball is going out?

A defender stands with one foot on the touchline to catch the ball which he expects to land in the field of play. Offside players rush towards him to prevent a putative QTI. The savvy defender now moves his foot infield before making the catch and earns a penalty for offside.

There can be no doubt at all that the players were breaking the offside law before the ball went into touch. Why can they not be penalised for that - particularly if they subsequently benefit from that illegality?

 

[Dickie E]

Wat 'n gemors

 

[Ian_Cook]

What surprises me is that Jon Kaplan doesn't appear to know about the iRB June Guideline #2

 

[damo]

What surprises me is that Jon Kaplan doesn't appear to know about the iRB June Guideline #2

Yeah me too. I thought he might have said something along the lines of "that applies to players acting illegally before the ball went out", which is a plausible (though wrong imo) interpretation of the clip. Instead he seems to have never even heard of it. Strange.

 

[Dickie E]

What surprises me is that Jon Kaplan doesn't appear to know about the iRB June Guideline #2

The IRB Guideline doesn't have any words so we just have the video to rely on. To me the message is "comply with offside law up until the ball goes into touch. After that, you can run up to LoT and/or block QT".

But it is odd that JK has never heard of it.