Scoreline getting out of hand

[FightOrFlight]

If you referee at underage level then you will most likely come across a game where one team is running in tries without the other getting a touch of the ball at all.

The question I ask is how do you deal with it?

I had a few games last year that were 13-17 age group and 50-70 point margins at half time. You can ask the coach what he wants done.....you can not stop the watch at all for injuries etc but have any of you ever thought "here this should be blown up now". Some coaches will say it to you and others will refuse and allow the team to take a tonking.....but it's unfair on young kids to be beaten like that...

I had a 140-0 u15s game last year(watch running non stop from 10mins in until the end)....a few kids were crying after but the coach demanded the full time be played....

 

[Rushforth]

The rule here in Holland is if there is already a 30 point gap at half-time, the teams should mix to balance for the second half. Halves are 25 mins for U15, 30 for U17, and 35 for U19. It rarely happens, but as a referee I always offer the side under the cosh the option.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Some year ago, we trialled having the team that scored restarting, so the team that is scored against a lot at least get a chance to get hands on the ball.

 

[crossref]

This situation is really up to the coaches to sort out Not the Ref. ... But you can nudge the coaches

 

[didds]

if there are no AG rules, or competition rules (if its in a competition!) for a mercy ending then you are down to the coaches.

i suppose as a ref the only thing you have at your disposal if you really feel its your call, is to call the game on a "danger" aspect eg the losers are in danger of getting injured due to the hugely superior oppo.

BUT - that's a big call.

The problem you have is the testosterone levels of the coaches involved.

didds

 

[Rich]

Surrey league matches can be stopped at a 40pt differential

 

[Chris_j]

U19 and below in England requires the ref to stop at 50 clear points, unless the teams both agree to continue.

http://www.rfu.com/thegame/~/media/files/thegame/regulations/rfu regulation 15 (1213).pdf

15.14.315.14.4 Matches must be brought to an end if:

2. (a) at Under 7s to Under 12s the try difference rises to more than six; or
3. (b) at Under 13s to Under 18s the points difference is more than 50 pointsunless both teams are in agreement to continue.

As referees we should always ask as the score approaches 50 clear points. With some coaches I don't give the option and blow anyway.

 

[Taff]

In WRU land, I always understood that the game ended if the margin got above 50 points. Do you think I can find that written down anywhere?

The closest I can find is a paragraph in the Pathway booklet that says

It is strongly recommended that coaches and referees are sensitive to the scores so that one side is not overwhelmed. Enjoyment and development must be the priority at this stage.

 

[Browner]

Under the Regs its the Coaches decision not the referees ( except unsafe).

note, RFU reg 15.14.4 refers to U18's, u19s aren't affected by it.

 

[Anthony]

In Sydney Juniors there is what is referred to as the "mercy rule" which depending on age requires the dominant team at a lead of say 40 points to drop a player (ie 15 vs 14) and if the score continues to increase at 50 points to drop another player. I have done a couple of these and it can work well in giving the losing team a bit of an opportunity to play without necessarily affecting the end result, which is where the coaches get concerned

 

[Blackberry]

Under the Regs its the Coaches decision not the referees ( except unsafe).

note, RFU reg 15.14.4 refers to U18's, u19s aren't affected by it.

Hi Browner, just red the regs, I reckon its not down to the coach, the regs say the game "must" be brought to an end. This takes the onus off the coach and pressure off us!

 

[crossref]

Hi Browner, just red the regs, I reckon its not down to the coach, the regs say the game "must" be brought to an end. This takes the onus off the coach and pressure off us!

[LAWS]15.14.4 Matches must be brought to an end if:
(a) at Under 7s to Under 12s the try difference rises to more than six; or
(b) at Under 13s to Under 18s the points difference is more than 50 points
unless both teams are in agreement to continue.[/LAWS]

the bold bit -- seems to me that's the bit that gives the power to the coaches. If both coaches want to keep going then the game continues.

in practice though I think
- in competitions there is often a regualtion that will stop the game
- in friendlies the referee will generally have a lot of influence on the coaches
- I think the referee is also entitled to listen to the players, as well as the coaches.

 

[dave_clark]

let's also remember that most coaches are reasonable, and agree there is no real benefit in a 95-0 hiding in anything other than a league match where points difference may count...

 

[Browner]

Hi Browner, just red the regs, I reckon its not down to the coach, the regs say the game "must" be brought to an end. This takes the onus off the coach and pressure off us!

I know Blackberry, but "unless" provides the exception, so that decision is always the coaches.

If both coaches want to continue, then the game continues. If either of don't want it to, then it doesn't.

Personally, I'd always hope to seen some significant game modification orchestrated by the coaches to even up the contest, numbers/positions/personnel etc, but that's not a demand a referee should make.

 

[crossref]

let's also remember that most coaches are reasonable, and agree there is no real benefit in a 95-0 hiding in anything other than a league match where points difference may count...

and that's why Surrey leagues, and Middx leagues, anticipating this - have a max points differential regulation, so that no match can be won by more that 50, or 45 points respectively. I imagine all youth legaues have that, as well as some adult competitions.

Even in adult competiotns you don't want close leages decided at the top by the extent of the hammering administered to the team at the bottom.

 

[dave_clark]

yep, Essex has the same regs (35 i believe).

 

[Blackberry]

I know Blackberry, but "unless" provides the exception, so that decision is always the coaches.

If both coaches want to continue, then the game continues. If either of don't want it to, then it doesn't.

Personally, I'd always hope to seen some significant game modification orchestrated by the coaches to even up the contest, numbers/positions/personnel etc, but that's not a demand a referee should make.

Spot on Browner, didn't read the last bit of the regs properly, thanks.

 

[didds]

I know Blackberry, but "unless" provides the exception, so that decision is always the coaches.

If both coaches want to continue, then the game continues. If either of don't want it to, then it doesn't.

I suppose that while they may wish to continue the game, nothing is forcing a referee to continue to referee it... ?

didds

 

[OB..]

let's also remember that most coaches are reasonable, and agree there is no real benefit in a 95-0 hiding in anything other than a league match where points difference may count...

Even in adult competiotns you don't want close leages decided at the top by the extent of the hammering administered to the team at the bottom.

Points difference is indeed a flawed system. Last season I saw a match that was 104-0 after 60 minutes. The losing side suggested calling a halt, but their opponents said they needed as many points as possible to beat the team on top of the league. When the score reached 128-0 the referee decided the losers were in danger of injury from sheer tiredness and called the game off about 5 minutes early. The winners moaned. Consequence? The following week the losers could not raise a team - against the league leaders!. The latter were awarded an artificial win. Fortunately that was enough.

In our Merit Tables the head to head between tied teams is the first decider, and so far (10 years) has always proved sufficient.

 

[FightOrFlight]

Following the game I highlighted above that ended 140-0 there was a little bit of needle between coaches. No outright slagging match but a small bit of tension. The winning coach had insisted the full 60 be played(I didn't stop the watch after the first 10 mins and/or first 6 tries) and he later said that it was due to points difference in the league. Apparently they were a top 3 team and the other 2 teams in that position had put 100+ on this opposition. When he said that it introduced a new element to the issue for me. If one ref lets it go and someone scored 100 or 200 points then it is unfair of me to handicap other teams who may need to match this points difference albeit morally I feel I must.