Scotland Wales restart

[crossref]

I guess there are two things to take away: (1) in most games (i.e. those without a timekeeper) make sure time expires before the try or conversion - little good will come for a referee who restarts because he still has 10 seconds left; and (2) you can't have a lineout following a penalty awarded in stoppage time - so again it might be appropriate to ensure that time has elapsed.

I find this unduly cyncial, and rather unfair on the team that are 1 point behind and are entitled to have the game restart..

I mean if you follow your logic then if you have any kind of stoppage in the last minute or two you'd blow for full time to make things easier for yourself.

Doesn't fairness and equity dictate that if there is time left on your watch you keep playing.

 

[Blue Smartie]

I'm not being cynical; I am just suggesting people referee smarter. In most levels of match the additional period of time merely offers additional opportunities for (a) a player to get hurt (b) an act of foul play or (c) - and much more likely - for the referee to end up pulling a dubious penalty out of the hat in front of the sticks to become the only talking point of the game.

Take the pressure of yourself - the ball is naturally dead and best left that way. If the losing team had scored more points in the preceding 80mins it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[crossref]

hmm - but then as I sadi following that logic if it's a tight game and the winning team knock on with 45 seconds to go, you'd 'referee smart' and end the game for the same reasons.

what do other people think?

 

[OB..]

Doesn't fairness and equity dictate that if there is time left on your watch you keep playing.

It seems that way to me.

I don't really like the ad hoc ruling. It is rather arbitrary and too specific. What does need clarifying is whether or not, if time is short, a team can rush to restart without waiting for the opposition to be in place.

 

[Dickie E]

What does need clarifying is whether or not, if time is short, a team can rush to restart without waiting for the opposition to be in place.

What would be the point? If boot on ball for conversion is at 79:59 or less, then restart will take please with no need to rush.

If your concern is a general one about catching opposition unawares, that is an issue at any time during the game and has been discussed on another thread.

 

[Dickie E]

I don't really like the ad hoc ruling.

Do you mean ad hoc rulings in general or this specific ad hoc ruling?

If the latter, I do like it. It makes everything crystal clear. If boot on ball for conversion at 79:59 or less, we WILL restart irrespective of handbags, lost ball, substitution, yellow card return or any other delay.

 

[didds]

If the losing team had scored more points in the preceding 80mins it wouldn't be an issue.

But they have eighty minutes to score points at any time they can.

Not 79 minutes 40 seconds.


didds

 

[didds]

What does need clarifying is whether or not, if time is short, a team can rush to restart without waiting for the opposition to be in place.

why specifically clarify when time is short? they can try that at any time after a score?

didds

 

[didds]

hmm - but then as I sadi following that logic if it's a tight game and the winning team knock on with 45 seconds to go, you'd 'referee smart' and end the game for the same reasons.

what do other people think?

I think as a one time player and now coach, I would expect the ref to ref to the laws. Which include saying a game of rugby has a defeinte time length+time until the ball is dead. Not ball dead with time ALMOST up.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

I guess there are two things to take away: (1) in most games (i.e. those without a timekeeper) make sure time expires before the try or conversion - little good will come for a referee who restarts because he still has 10 seconds left; and (2) you can't have a lineout following a penalty awarded in stoppage time - so again it might be appropriate to ensure that time has elapsed.

You're the only with the watch. No-one else knows there's only 10 secs on the clock. All they know (and need to know) is whether there is time for a restart/lineout or not.

 

[crossref]

You are the only one with the watch. So you are duty bound to use it.

 

[OB..]

why specifically clarify when time is short? they can try that at any time after a score?

didds

I agree. I think they should take that line instead of the specific view that you must have a restart after a conversion/penalty taken before time expires. What about a drop goal?

 

[Pegleg]

... If the losing team had scored more points in the preceding 80mins it wouldn't be an issue.

And there's you problem

If the losing team had scored more points in the preceding 79 mins and 50 seconds it wouldn't be an issue. Well it would because the match is for 80 minutes. It is not for you to change the laws. BOTH sides have 80 minutes (plus any "live time" after the 80) to score what may be the winning score or the drawing score or the BP score or whatever. What right have we to "play God"?

 

[Pegleg]

I agree. I think they should take that line instead of the specific view that you must have a restart after a conversion/penalty taken before time expires. What about a drop goal?

In principle the same clarification applies. However, the water is muddied a little by the fact that we are not "prepared" with a drop goal. a quick glance at the watch as a pk / conversion is taken is easy to do and thereby establishing if the was the right side of 80 (or 40). With a DG it is often a snap call would we react quickly enough to check the watch at the point of impact?

 

[Pegleg]

I have a simple rule and this ruling will not change it.

If there is time - even 1 second - left to play the game restarts. UNLESS there is no impact on the result and the by the league. So if either side can increase their "match points" or decrease the opponants match points by scoring. or where a n extra try etc will give a title affect relegation on tie break. The game keeps going until the LAWS decree it is over. If the game is "over" (eg 30 -5) and it's a "nothing game" I may call it a second or two short depending on the situation.

One thing is absolute I am not going t odeny a side their right to the chance to score anf any time within the official game time.

 

[crossref]

In principle the same clarification applies.

If only WR had taken a little pause for thought, the drop goal scenario might have occured to them, and I agree they would likely have included that in the 'clarification'

However, the water is muddied a little by the fact that we are not "prepared" with a drop goal. a quick glance at the watch as a pk / conversion is taken is easy to do and thereby establishing if the was the right side of 80 (or 40). With a DG it is often a snap call would we react quickly enough to check the watch at the point of impact?

Definitly not, as your eyes would be on the ball to see if it goes over!

 

[Browner]

I have a simple rule and this ruling will not change it.

If there is time - even 1 second - left to play the game restarts. UNLESS there is no impact on the result and the by the league.

So if either side can increase their "match points" or decrease the opponants match points by scoring. or where a n extra try etc will give a title affect relegation on tie break.

The game keeps going until the LAWS decree it is over.

If the game is "over" (eg 30 -5) and it's a "nothing game" I may call it a second or two short depending on the situation.

One thing is absolute I am not going t odeny a side their right to the chance to score anf any time within the official game time.

As I read it Pegleg (?) , you had a 'fixed' yet also 'variable' position on this subject match by match, & that you definately won't amend following this Law clarification.

That sounds like inconsistent application to me . Or have i misunderstood?

 

[OB..]

In principle the same clarification applies. However, the water is muddied a little by the fact that we are not "prepared" with a drop goal. a quick glance at the watch as a pk / conversion is taken is easy to do and thereby establishing if the was the right side of 80 (or 40). With a DG it is often a snap call would we react quickly enough to check the watch at the point of impact?

The degree of timekeeping precision involved is only likely to be signifcant at the top levels - where they will have a timekeeper.

I just think they have gone down the wrong route.

 

[crossref]

OB do I understnad you properly? you are saying that it's all very well stipulating that when the clock says 10s to go, the restart will happen. What they need to cover is when the clock says (say) three minutes to go, can one team then proceed to waste a minute of that precious time by being slow to get ready for the kick.

 

[Phil E]

What right have we to "play God"?

[LAWS]6.A.4 (a)
The referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law during a match.[/LAWS]