shot clock this weeekend

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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I'll say it now - and it is not intended to upset anyone who has contributed to the thread thus far or indeed anyone who holds any strong opinions on this particular subject - but this is one of the most uninteresting threads since "Leggings".

Indeed Leggings was more interesting especially as it started to achieve "cult" status on the forum as the contributions approached 4 figures.
 

DocP


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Watching some of the Top 14, I noticed that the clock starts as soon as the try is scored so scorers need to be "more careful" with the ball after scoring otherwise they are putting more pressure on their own kicker. Clock goes on at a PK as soon as the posts are requested.
Seems to work and is pretty well over there and seamless.
 

DocP


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I'll say it now - and it is not intended to upset anyone who has contributed to the thread thus far or indeed anyone who holds any strong opinions on this particular subject - but this is one of the most uninteresting threads since "Leggings".

Indeed Leggings was more interesting especially as it started to achieve "cult" status on the forum as the contributions approached 4 figures.
Agree mate, didn't even think it was an issue until it was made one. Very rarely does a kick come close to being over time and it won't stop those that want to wind clock down at the end of the match. In fact it may even slow it down buy kickers really taking their time as they can see the clock.
 

Stu10


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I feel this whole topic has come to the fore after the controversial end to the last Bledisloe Cup, however, that was a penalty kick for touch and is not covered by shot clock!!!
 

didds

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It would be interesting to see what happens at top level if try scoring team throw ball up or kick it into crowd as has been done over the years or conversely the defending team hide/kick the ball away.
I suppose you are now into the territory of "cheating" in such cases and a PK against the hide/kick perpetrator.

So that could be a PK restart on half way?
 

Phil E


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It would be interesting to see what happens at top level if try scoring team throw ball up or kick it into crowd as has been done over the years or conversely the defending team hide/kick the ball away.

erm....use another ball? Same as they do at every lineout.
 

Phil E


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I'll say it now - and it is not intended to upset anyone who has contributed to the thread thus far or indeed anyone who holds any strong opinions on this particular subject - but this is one of the most uninteresting threads since "Leggings".

Indeed Leggings was more interesting especially as it started to achieve "cult" status on the forum as the contributions approached 4 figures.

You aren't being forced to read it?
 

didds

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erm....use another ball? Same as they do at every lineout.
well, yes and no.

Different ball is Ok for a stajndard lineout. [1]
But you cant use a different ball for a quick throw - so the throwing away etc is pertinent.
[1] And now there are /may be limitations of time taken by the throwing team to set up and throw (30 seconds was a Aus trial for example) unavailability of the ball may be an issue - here i mean in some lower level game where the ball is now in the nxxt field, and the spare ball is the other side of the ground, at the other end of the pitch anyway. Pro games have hundreds of ball boys/girls all carrying a doxen balls etc ...


Going back to kicks - throwing the ball away in lower levels may impact the time to kick similarly - spare balls being 140m away etc etc .

didds
 

Phil E


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Going back to kicks - throwing the ball away in lower levels may impact the time to kick similarly - spare balls being 140m away etc etc .

didds

We don't have a shot clock down in the weeds though. The ref will/should make allowances for the ball being unavailable.
 

didds

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We don't have a shot clock down in the weeds though. The ref will/should make allowances for the ball being unavailable.
exactly. As can a ref at eleite levels. which comes back to "why a shot clock" ?
 

crossref


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which comes back to "why a shot clock" ?
to speed up the game (and possibly to enhance spectator experience)


I still think that it will only make the game slower, as
- kickers with an incentive to be quick will take exactly the same time as before
- kickers who don't care abut the time will take exactly the same time as before
- kickers who want to go slow, will now have the information they need to make sure they take every last second to which they are entitled, freed of any jeopardy of going overtime
 

didds

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yup. and the visible clock is still no different to one of the To4 actually timing it anyway
 

Phil E


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yup. and the visible clock is still no different to one of the To4 actually timing it anyway

The difference is that before no one could see the clock, so no one could object.
Now when the clock runs out the referee will have to act, or face serious questions from the opposition, for which he will have no defence.
 

didds

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so what does that say about refs lower down where shot clocks wont exist ?
 

crossref


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The difference is that before no one could see the clock, so no one could object.
Now when the clock runs out the referee will have to act, or face serious questions from the opposition, for which he will have no defence.
his defence will be along the lines of the press release

Throughout the trial phase, the existing processes by which referees determine the time permitted for the kicker will remain in place to maintain the sporting integrity of the competition.

the shot clock you see on the big screen isn't the real timer. I have my own, separate watch, that you can't see, and I paused it wihout the shot clock operator knowing
 

Locke


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so what does that say about refs lower down where shot clocks wont exist ?
Same as where a public game clock doesn’t exist, right? I’ve refereed 2 or 3 games ever that had an electronic scoreboard. Just as with all my other games, the official time was on my watch. When end of half/game was approaching, there was always discrepancy between the official time and the time on the board because of stoppages the scoreboard operator didn’t get quite right, so I announced to the field the reminder that I have the official time and how many minutes actually remain.
 

buff


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All of our university games take place on football/gridiron fields with stadium clocks. The operators don't stop and start the clocks. As time winds down in each half, and particularly in the 2nd half of tight games I will remind the captains that the clock is not accurate. Often the clock is stopped with 2 minutes to go in each half. We have been dealing with it for so long it is rarely an issue.
 

shebeen

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@Phil E did they ever pause the shot clock (eg for TMO review) and if they did pause it, do they continue where they were, or reset back to 60? Or something else

Continuing seems sensible, but would be a bit rough if (say) clock was paused just as kicker started run up with 3s to go
Saw it recently in the URC, this was without shot clocks but commentators discuss them while first kick is setting up.
I highlight this one because Manie Libbok is one of those players who takes forever to kick (but has a high success rate).

try scored 61:57

Ref (Andrew Brace) says try is good, but then double checks with TMO for knock on (can't here who is talking to on field - but probably kicker or captain)
48 seconds after try - ref confirms TRY is good
61 seconds - ref tells kicker to hurry up
85 - kick taken - missed

penalty awarded 64:38
shot at goal indicated 64:57
59 seconds later, kicker warned
67 seconds, kick taken - missed.

Surely to speed up a goalkicker could start setting up and getting routine underway while TMO check is happening? Clearly rushed on the first one, but took time on the second and still missed. One can only speculate on the affect a referee rushing the player does, but it can't be much different a reaction to a boisterous crowd. These guys are professionals, the end result is that goalkickers who have very long kicking routines need to hurry them up - I don't think anyone has a problem with that.
 

crossref


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BBC
Game clock counting upwards, 0 to 80
YC clock counting downwards 10 to 0

Wonder what the logic for that is
 

BikingBud


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We know a game should be 2 halves of 40 mins therefore easy to see how far the game has progressed. Spectators especially on TV will unlikely record the time the offender is invited to take a rest so in game elapsed time it would be difficult to track whereas counting down keeps a record. Always gets interesting when 2 or 3 players are cooling off.
 
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