Shot Clock Why?

[DocP]

Is there a "shot clock" normally available at community level? There isn't at DRFC.

Other than the ref's watch which nobody else can see.

Nope no shot clock. I do have one on my wrist via the smart watch app but they don't know that. Still it doesn't stop them asking. I just say "thank you, I'm aware" and just ignore.

If we are getting close I will give a 15 second warning but I have never, and probably will never, blown up. If time ever is up and the ball is on the tee I'll just tell them to kick now. If the ball (there is usually only one) isn't on the tee, it's probably because someone is retrieving it from a tree or the stream next to the pitch. So not really fair to apply the shot clock at this level. Empathy is still the main thing to have in consideration in the weeds

 

[shebeen]

the laws allow 90 seconds for the kick. Ive no isue with the kick being prevented once 90s is up. But if the kicker takes 89.9 seconds to connect boot to ball thats legal. Whether its used to run the clock down, or because its windy, or because the routine always takes 89.9 seconds ... is irrelevant. The law doesn't say "90 seconds but really has to be done in 30".

Presumably if the ref truly believes the kicker is using the full 90-ish to run the clock down, the ref can invoke law 9.7(d)

Unfair play

• A player must not:
  ...

7. d. Waste time.
Sanction: Free Kick

If 9.7d isnt' invoked QED it can't have been time wasting.

I think that's a stretch. The kicker has the full 90 seconds, and the unintended consequence is that it seems like when running down time is crucial the kicker will use as much of that as possible (with the the help of the stadium shot clock). Time wasting 7.d as you highlight here is always going to be subjective, Bernard Foley probably still has nightmares of Raynal with a stopwatch blowing him awake in a mild sweat.

In terms of the Libokke incident, bear in mind the pundits are being paid for their extensive and credible knowledge of the game to enhance the enjoyment of the watching public!

Moreover if they can see the same as I can, and bear in mind the clock tends to be in a similar location for all grounds, their professional and extensive game knowledge should enable them to locate said clock and highlight to the ignorant public that the clock is running down and comment that the kicker who is solely responsible for their own conduct and the execution of the kick within the directed time limit is not going to complete the action within the prescribed time limit and is at risk of being pinged.

Otherwise the pundits and their comments can only be assessed as unqualified and incompetent. Oh wait a minute!!

Maybe in the absence of Rassie the torch we see players unable to manage their own decisions

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. I'm not exactly sure who the full commentary team is on this feed (sky?), and I am going on the assumption that they are in the London studio commenting off a feed (or two) and not being present at the ground - that is obviously for cost saving measure and comes with tradeoffs.
What I do know is that one of them is Bob Skinstad, call him a clueless and incompetent muppet all you want, he definitely has 1 more RWC winner's medal hanging up in his bar at home than you do.

 

[didds]

I think that's a stretch. The kicker has the full 90 seconds, and the unintended consequence is that it seems like when running down time is crucial the kicker will use as much of that as possible (with the the help of the stadium shot clock). Time wasting 7.d as you highlight here is always going to be subjective,

That was really myu point.

the kicker has 90 seconds.
If the kicker takes the full 90 seconds.
If the kicker takes the full 90 seconds, it isnt time wasting. its taking what the law permits.
So suggestions that its somehow wrong of kickers to do so are somewhat off the mark.
I was merely showing that if a ref was of the opinion that taking what is legally permitted is time wasting, then 9.7.d can be invoked - which i might suggest it never is. QED etc

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I think the "Countdown" clock should be on the big screen and played over the PA at 95db.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I think the "Countdown" clock should be on the big screen and played over the PA at 95db.

Just to be clear - no I don't.

I think it's a load of old bollocks!

 

[crossref]

I had a kicker earlier this season (they scored six tries) who at every conversion asked if I could please tell him when there was 10 seconds left. He set up and then stood there and waited for my word.

I don't see why not... I guess.

I have to say though, I didn't start a stop watch the moment the try was scored. I just waited a little while each time and said "OK 10s".

 

[Volun-selected]

I had a kicker earlier this season (they scored six tries) who at every conversion asked if I could please tell him when there was 10 seconds left. He set up and then stood there and waited for my word.

I don't see why not... I guess.

I have to say though, I didn't start a stop watch the moment the try was scored. I just waited a little while each time and said "OK 10s".

This made me smile as I had the opposite - U17 and every time I awarded his team a try this one lad would pick up the ball, trot back along the mark, turn and just drop kick a la 7s - and most times scored.

The only downside was, being a hot day, I was looking forward to getting a short break to catch my breath.

 

[tim White]

On a game management point; this can become a point of friction if one team perceives the kicker is taking the mickey out of them. The kicker is entitled to his 60/90 as a maximum, perhaps they might be asked nicely to get on with it -of course, if they decline you have to manage the receiving team accordingly. I do understand any delay in actually providing a ball to kick or a tee might adjust your timekeeping or management technique.

 

[DocP]

providing a ball to kick or a tee

Couldn't tell you the amount of times I have heard the kicker shout "where's my tee" and just get a reply of "dunno". Eventually after people start digging in piles of warm up tops they think sod it and use a random plastic cone they found on the sidelines

 

[Jz558]

I can't find the evidence to back this up but I seem to remember, relatively recenty, that Luke Pearce asked a player to take the kick rather than run down the 90 seconds. The player complied but I wonder what would have happend if he'd said "I have 90 seconds".

 

[didds]

I had a kicker earlier this season (they scored six tries) who at every conversion asked if I could please tell him when there was 10 seconds left. He set up and then stood there and waited for my word.

I don't see why not... I guess.

I have to say though, I didn't start a stop watch the moment the try was scored. I just waited a little while each time and said "OK 10s".

id have just said "3 seconds" as soon as he asked

 

[jdeagro]

Couldn't tell you the amount of times I have heard the kicker shout "where's my tee" and just get a reply of "dunno". Eventually after people start digging in piles of warm up tops they think sod it and use a random plastic cone they found on the sidelines

Sounds like my typical Saturday, at the level I play at.

 

[Stu10]

can add defensive scrumhalf pushing his opponent directly after the put-in.

As an ex half back, this one really annoys me and I'm surprised players don't appear to complain at elite level.

I remember a game in which the oppo #9 stood on my toes when I was putting the ball into the scrum... after doing it twice I complained to the ref... at grassroots, I played to enjoy it, and having my toes crushed at every scrum is not enjoyable (I actually said this)... they other guy then looked a little ashamed and apologised.

 

[Stu10]

This made me smile as I had the opposite - U17 and every time I awarded his team a try this one lad would pick up the ball, trot back along the mark, turn and just drop kick a la 7s - and most times scored.

The only downside was, being a hot day, I was looking forward to getting a short break to catch my breath.

This is a great scenario to highlight the different motivations of kickers, which referees should be aware of to a certain degree.

My son's last u17 game was a comfortable win and the kicker changed to fast drop kicks in the second half; however, I wonder what was going through his head. He may have been thinking about restarting sooner to provide opportunity for even more tries, whereas the players who had run in tries from 50m out were clearly unhappy that they didn't have time for water.

I refereed a senior game last season in which the kicker wanted to run down the clock to get to half time... I told him to just kick and I would blow for the break, rather than stand there for another 40 seconds staring at my watch.

I can realistically see teams wanting to take all the time permitted if they are waiting for a yellow card to expire, and I'm not sure you can fault them for that.

 

[chbg]

If there is less than 90 secs (well around 60 I suppose more realistically) on the clock, I do tell the kicker how much game time is left, and whether he wishes to take the kick quickly (if time is short) or does he wish to let the time complete before kicking. If the latter, then I tell him to kick early when ready and I will end the half afterwards. Fully agree that there is no point in waiting just to let the seconds tick away legitimately.

 

[SimonSmith]

What I do know is that one of them is Bob Skinstad, call him a clueless and incompetent muppet all you want, he definitely has 1 more RWC winner's medal hanging up in his bar at home than you do.

Which has got what to do with the situation at hand?

 

[shebeen]

As an ex half back, this one really annoys me and I'm surprised players don't appear to complain at elite level.

I remember a game in which the oppo #9 stood on my toes when I was putting the ball into the scrum... after doing it twice I complained to the ref... at grassroots, I played to enjoy it, and having my toes crushed at every scrum is not enjoyable (I actually said this)... they other guy then looked a little ashamed and apologised.

Think the stumbling block is they all seem to do it!

Which has got what to do with the situation at hand?

It adds context to the identity of a commentator. Whether playing at the highest level is qualification to be knowledgeable of the game is a subjective pursuit.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Speaking about game management, I regularly have the "where's the kicking tee scenario" in games I ref.
First time it happens for either team I just stop the clock let them find it an tell them to sort it out, I don't want to be seen to be a pedantic *rse.
If they keep doing it that is now their problem and I will stick to the allotted times.

 

[SimonSmith]

he definitely has 1 more RWC winner's medal hanging up in his bar at home than you do.

It adds context to the identity of a commentator. Whether playing at the highest level is qualification to be knowledgeable of the game is a subjective pursuit.

Yeah, not the point, but you know that already.

We've already got first hand evidence that being an elite player does noit equip you to understand the game or the laws thereof. I offer up England v Italy.

 

[didds]

We've already got first hand evidence that being an elite player does noit equip you to understand the game or the laws thereof. I offer up England v Italy.

yup.