silly question?

[David J.]

Ball kicked, bounces along the ground, goes out 2 meteres from the goal line. Should the touch judge raise flag and stand 2m from goal line or 5m from goal line?

 

[Chris P]

Watching the European Cup games on the box this weekend, the touch judge went to the 5 metre line every time.

 

[Cymro]

5M Line

 

[Phil E]

He should stand where the linout will take place, which is on the 5m line. There are no lineouts inside the 5m line (or scrums). If he stands on the 2m, then that is where the players will try to form a line!!

 

[Scarlet Al]

5M line.

 

[chopper15]

Ball kicked, bounces along the ground, goes out 2 meteres from the goal line. Should the touch judge raise flag and stand 2m from goal line or 5m from goal line?

19.2(b) For a quick throw in, the player may be anywhere outside the field
of play between the place where the ball went into touch and the
player’s goal line.

But would you let him take a QT towards the opp's GL ie. on the 5m line? :hap:

 

[Phil E]

19.2(b) For a quick throw in, the player may be anywhere outside the field
of play between the place where the ball went into touch and the
player’s goal line.

But would you let him take a QT towards the opp's GL ie. on the 5m line? :hap:

Chopper, the question was where should the touch judge raise his flag.............I'm thinking where I would like to stick mine :hap:

 

[Simon Thomas]

gents, increasingly questions being asked are very basic LoG. They are in the good book, so look there first, and for qualified appointed TJs they should know.

We would expect a basic ELRA qualified ref / TJ (AR) to know line-out at 5m.

 

[SimonSmith]

*cough* USA *cough*

Sliiiiiightly different qualifications here. Some of the basic levels referees I have had the pleasure of watching have had a disturbing lack of law knowledge.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Ignorance is no protection in eyes of law................... especially in USA, and those lovely guys in Arizona Highway Patrol.

Set minimum standards and if they can't meet them, ................

 

[chopper15]

Chopper, the question was where should the touch judge raise his flag.............I'm thinking where I would like to stick mine :hap:

I knew the answer, Phil. I was only pointing that the law, as written, doesn't allow a QT to be taken towards the opp's goal-line. :sad:

 

[Phil E]

I knew the answer, Phil. I was only pointing that the law, as written, doesn't allow a QT to be taken towards the opp's goal-line. :sad:

That might be because under law you can't? I fail to see what your point is.

How about, lets discuss why the law doesn't allow you to throw the ball forward?

Because that's the law of the game

 

[David J.]

And I'd expect a Grade 8 referee to have more tact when interacting with a fellow referee. We don't all meet expectations, I suppose.

I'm asking because I was observing a match yesterday. The ball went out 2 meters from the goal line and a club-appointed touch judge marked where the ball went out. The flanker from the attacking team (not the TJ's team) told him to stand at the 5m and did so in an unkind way.

The referee told the TJ to stay where he was and and pulled the flanker aside and had a quiet word. Then the ref said lineout 5m and asked the TJ to go to the 5m.

I'm assuming the ref wanted to put the flanker in his place, but I wanted to check in case there was some protocol I wasn't aware of.

I'd rather ask a stupid question than bask in ignorance.

 

[Dickie E]

David, I think the ref did it all OK.

Made me think of another question though:

Ball goes into touch 2 metres from goal line. Defender wants to take QT. Can he take in on 5 metre line or only no more than 2 metres from goal line?

 

[Deeps]

In a 7s tourney yesterday the ball went into touch just before the corner flag. An enterprising defender took a quick throw from touch in goal into in goal and away we went.

Incorrect I know yet it was positive if risky play and I saw no reason to call it back for the technicality. One might argue that the attackers were not expecting it and might have been disadvantaged but what the hell.

 

[Davet]

I don't think Chopper is asking if the ball can thrown towards the 5m line from some point nearer the goal-line, ie a throw forward. It's simply that, as speaker of English as a second language his phraseology is sometime up a creek and paddleless.

I suspect he's really asking if, when the ball goes into touch between the 5m line and the goal-line could a QT be taken nearer the 5m line than the ball actually went into touch - presumably on the basis of that's where the formed lineout will be.

A very brief reading of the law by a native speaker would tell him that the QT is taken between where the ball crosses the touchline and the goal-line, and signally fails to mention the place where the line out would be.

This has fairly clear implications for the place of the QT in respect of both this situation and that when the ball is kicked out on the full outside the 22.

 

[chopper15]

I don't think Chopper is asking if the ball can thrown towards the 5m line from some point nearer the goal-line, ie a throw forward. It's simply that, as speaker of English as a second language his phraseology is sometime up a creek and paddleless.

I suspect he's really asking if, when the ball goes into touch between the 5m line and the goal-line could a QT be taken nearer the 5m line than the ball actually went into touch - presumably on the basis of that's where the formed lineout will be.

A very brief reading of the law by a native speaker would tell him that the QT is taken between where the ball crosses the touchline and the goal-line, and signally fails to mention the place where the line out would be.

This has fairly clear implications for the place of the QT in respect of both this situation and that when the ball is kicked out on the full outside the 22.

Thanks for having a go at attempting to translate my Cornish syntax, Davet. And you're nearly there, be buggered!:hap:


Ref. my original query;
19.2(b) For a quick throw in, the player may be anywhere outside the field
of play between the place where the ball went into touch and the
player’s goal line.

But would you let him take a QT towards the opp's GL ie. on the 5m line?


So, if I'm understanding your native English translation correctly, Davet, should he run to the ' flagged' LoT on the 5m line and no LO is formed, a QbT (as opposed to a QsT) is a no no . . . . unlike any other flagged touch?

 

[Davet]

QbT? QsT? Must be Cornish

If no line out is formed, ie don't have 2+2, then a Quick Throw is possible, if it is formed, then a Quick Throw isn't alllowed.

Note, if a Line-out is not formed then we clearly cannot have a line-out.

A Quick Throw may only take place between the place where the ball crossed the touchline and the thrower's Goal Line.

If a Line out IS formed, then the throw in to that line out MUST (in this case - since ball went into touch only 2m out from goal line) be along the 5m line.

"unlike any other flagged touch"

I have no idea what you mean by that, the principle is the same in all cases - a formed lineout takes place where the TJ indicates. A QT (which is specifically NOT a Line-out) takes place under certain circumstances (same ball, no one else touched it, etc.) and can only take place between where the ball crossed the Touch Line and the throwers goal line.

I suspect you are confusing
a) a Quick Throw
and
b) a Line Out taken quickly.

In most cases of course the place the TJ indicates for the Line-Out will be where the ball crossed the touch line, but theer are two exceptions.
1) When the ball crosses the touchline within 5m of the goal-line
2) When the kicker is outside his own 22 (or the ball was taken back in and no ruck...etc.) and kicks out on the full

In both those cases the furthest point from the thrower's goal line the Quick throw can be taken from will be closer to that goal line than where the TJ indicates for the Line Out (in the case of 2 perhaps substantially closer.

I hope that is clear, if not then I must leave it to more lucid comentators.

 

[Dixie]

I wonder if Chopper is onto something here?

A QT (which is specifically NOT a Line-out) takes place under certain circumstances (same ball, no one else touched it, etc.) and can only take place between where the ball crossed the Touch Line and the throwers goal line.

Ball dribbles onto the touchline off a Blue defender 2m from Blue goal line. Red winger picks it up, throws it from where it is (i.e. 2m from the goal line) backwards to his advancing team-mate, who scores under the posts. No line out had formed on the 5m line.

Can the try be awarded, given that the QT was taken closer to the goal line than 5m, but exactly where the ball went into touch?

 

[Davet]

Why not? It fits the Law to a T