Spectator entering field of play

[Buzz]

Was watching a U16 match recently when an incident occured just before half time involving a player from both teams having a bit of handbags after a tackle in the 5m area from touch. As is with U16's players from both teams decided to join in. Referee blew his whistle in an attempt to stop the melee when an away adult spectator leapt over the barrier and got involved, and is alleged to have grabbed two of the home players in a headlock.

Apparently he got involved to 'protect' the players! From what I am led to believe, the away team appear to believe that his actions were ok, and that the home club are at fault as the referee did not do anything to potect the players??

 

[dave_clark]

happened at my club at 1st XV level a few seasons ago. the father of twins playing, he got a few clouts for his trouble.

i don't know if he was sanctioned at all, but in your example i would expect the spectator to be at least banned from watching for a while. utter bullshit attitude from the away side.

 

[OB..]

I intervened once. 1st XV game and our winger was pinned on his back with an opponent kneeling on his arms. Said opponent was punching him in the face. The referee was following play away to the far side of the pitch and I was only a couple of metres away, so I went on, pushed the opponent off balance, and nipped off again smartish. The "fight" stopped, and nobody complained.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Spectators are not allowed on the field of play - end of discussion. Any incident will be reported to our CB.

In the case of U18 or younger matches, it is even more serious and Chlid Safeguarding staff are likely to be informed as well.

In Buzz's specific example (what follows is what would probably happen in England and for definite in Hampshire) the referee is quite correct to blow his whistle and not get physically involved (see RFU Intervention memo atachedon a different thread).

Adult spectator getting involved in against LoG and RFU advice (see Intervention memo) and would be treated very seriously by our CB and I would expect the club involved - ban at least for the person. Also Child Safeguarding Officers would most likely be informed.

Away club's 'justification' for the action is total b*llshit and would not stand up at all.

 

[Buzz]

The WRU's Child Protection unit is looking into the incident. Hopefully they will see sense and ban him. It's not as if the melee moved towards him, and he got caught up in it involuntarily. He actually leapt over a 3ft high barrier. The referee did exactly as he was told to do, by not getting involved, and actually spoke to the spectator at half time and informed he was not to step past the barrier. Apparently he got a shrug of shoulders in return

 

[Skid986]

But, as we all know, often at lower level games you can be a lonely spectator on the opposite side of the pitch to the ref, who might be the only official and unsighted of a skinny little 9 being pummeled by a burly lock. Irrespective of the LoG, I believe we all have a responsibility as citizens to intervene in the defence of those unable to protect themselves, using minimum force as necessary. Assault is a crime and it is a duty to try to prevent crimes being carried out.

Each case on its own merits of course, but for me it is better to intervene and prevent somebody getting hurt rather than stand and watch happy in the knowledge that you won't get a ban for encroaching on the FoP.

 

[SimonSmith]

But, as we all know, often at lower level games you can be a lonely spectator on the opposite side of the pitch to the ref, who might be the only official and unsighted of a skinny little 9 being pummeled by a burly lock. Irrespective of the LoG, I believe we all have a responsibility as citizens to intervene in the defence of those unable to protect themselves, using minimum force as necessary. Assault is a crime and it is a duty to try to prevent crimes being carried out.

Each case on its own merits of course, but for me it is better to intervene and prevent somebody getting hurt rather than stand and watch happy in the knowledge that you won't get a ban or prosecuted for encroaching on the FoP.

I added a key concept for you that may affect how some people think about it.

 

[OB..]

I added a key concept for you that may affect how some people think about it.

You can't get prosecuted for encroaching on the field of play. It is not a crime.

Activities accepted as normal on the rugby pitch are regarded as crimes elsewhere, so the act needs to be clearly outside normality (whatever that is) for the law to come into it.

AFAIK there is nothing in the law that obliges citizens to intervene to prevent the commission of a crime. Have-a-go heroes are often criticised for putting themselves at risk. In law, the Good Samaritan took a risk by getting himself involved.

 

[SimonSmith]

I may have misread the posts, but my reasoning was:
Entering FoP - not liable to prosecution
Physically getting between two minors - possibility exists.

If I ever do High School games in the US - and I'm doing my best to avoid them, but fate may catch me up - I will not get between two kids. Deciding to do nothing is a more defensible position that actually initiating action.

 

[Phil E]

You can't get prosecuted for encroaching on the field of play. It is not a crime.

Rugby no.

Soccer yes.

 

[didds]

Soccer yes.

Is this true at the "Dog & Duck Sunday morning 2nd XI" level Phil? Or just at pro games?

cheers

didds

 

[oldman]

At the 'Dog and Duck' 2ND XI you would probably be asked to play if you were under 75 and breathing.

 

[Phil E]

Is this true at the "Dog & Duck Sunday morning 2nd XI" level Phil? Or just at pro games

Just at Pro games. It is a criminal offence to enter the playing field or it's perimeter.

Dog & Duck won't actually have any spectators, so it's a mute point (or is that the Black Swan?).

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Was watching a U16 match recently when an incident occured just before half time involving a player from both teams having a bit of handbags after a tackle in the 5m area from touch. As is with U16's players from both teams decided to join in. Referee blew his whistle in an attempt to stop the melee when an away adult spectator leapt over the barrier and got involved, and is alleged to have grabbed two of the home players in a headlock.

Apparently he got involved to 'protect' the players! From what I am led to believe, the away team appear to believe that his actions were ok, and that the home club are at fault as the referee did not do anything to potect the players??

In this instance the spectator is clearly wrong and grabbing 2 kids in a headlock seems a bit far fetched anyway.

As others have said, if somebody is getting pummelled at any level I believe any person has tghe right to intervene and use reasonable restraint to stop a crime being committed. I would have no hesitation in doing it and have done so.

 

[Davet]

Surely the swan is mute , but the point is moot?

 

[Phil E]

Surely the swan is mute , but the point is moot?

mute - swan

I was obviously being too clever for my own good.

 

[nealed]

In this instance the spectator is clearly wrong and grabbing 2 kids in a headlock seems a bit far fetched anyway.

As others have said, if somebody is getting pummelled at any level I believe any person has tghe right to intervene and use reasonable restraint to stop a crime being committed. I would have no hesitation in doing it and have done so.

we have had this discussion several times at our club
no right answer as far as i can see
damned if you do, damned if you dont

 

[Simon Thomas]

I refer all in RFU-land to the RFU issued Intervention Policy memo I posted earlier.

Apply common sense and balance the intervention and risk of serious injury as a referee (interesting to hear Mr Yvette Cooper - old Ed Balls-up himself - was quoted today advocating teachers using force to control pupils )

Spectators or even coaches entering the field of play is still a big NO NO and leave the Child Safeguarding folks to handle it if it is reported.

 

[didds]

mute - swan

I was obviously being too clever for my own good.

I knew what you what you were doing Phil.

I enjoyed it.



didds

 

[Phil E]

I knew what you what you were doing Phil.

Not sure you knew what you were doing in the quote above though

Glad someone noticed the pun.