Spray paint

Pegleg

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What do people think about the sprays used in the football world cup to mark the 10m for free kicks. Would it be useful for making the scrum mark as an aide to seeing if the ball is straight or not?
 

crossref


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I wondered about that.
In rugby we make a lot of marks. I think it would be a bit fiddly to have spray paint every time.
 

Browner

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What do people think about the sprays used in the football world cup to mark the 10m for free kicks. Would it be useful for making the scrum mark as an aide to seeing if the ball is straight or not?

Pansy Pink would be more interesting than white in shoccer
 

Pegleg

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I wondered about that.
In rugby we make a lot of marks. I think it would be a bit fiddly to have spray paint every time.


Only three I'd consider. The mark for the scrum, the marks for the two lines at a line out and PK / FKs. I think the spray evaporates after about 30 seconds or so. I watched the Premiership 7s the other week and thought it would be a good idea on the artificial pitches where marks can't be made. That got me thinking it would make the scrum feed clear to all.

Certainly no to marking the 5 and 10 back for players at scrum and LO or the defensive offsides at PK / FKs
 

Phil E


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I think it could be used wherever the referee makes a mark with his foot. I am sure it would get the nod from groundsmen everywhere.

So yes, scrums, lineouts and some PK/FK.
 

Pegleg

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I had not thought about the poor groundsman. You have a point he may welcome the use of the spray.
 

crossref


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For a PK -I am not sure there's any need to spray the 'mark' , and there's no time to spray the defensive 10m line.

For a scrum it would be useful to have a nice line on the pitch. but would it be slow?
 

Pegleg

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We make the mark so why not a quick squirt. On 3G pitches a heel makes no mark. Time wise I can't see that it would take any longer than making the mark with out heel. At least this one can be seen.

- - - Updated - - -

For the defensive lines I totally agree.
 

ChrisR

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I don't think there is a problem in seeing pf the feed is straight. The problem is enforcing the requirement.

And no, I don't like the idea of a can of paint for real or fake grass, Soccer introduced it because the offending team always cheated up and it was needed.
 

Pegleg

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Clearly there is a problem with the feed. Movement of the packs is one issue that affects judgement. Also the myriad of other things that you need to look at are "distractions" a clear reference point for a ref. Of course it may also show that a lot of calls that coaches etc moan about are not actually wrong. Perish the thought!

I do like the inference that rugby players do not cheat. Rugby players are clearly coached to cheat. Clearly, the perception is that SHs "always cheat" when it comes to scrum feeds. So The reason for football introducing it applies to scrums too.

Of course it is not a "can of paint" . It is a, very, temporary marking that is similar in effect to a heel dragged across the ground although a lot more visible.

Positives:

Clear mark for the two packs - the "mark" is "highlighted".
Clear reference point for the referee and other "interested" parties that establishes the legitimacy or otherwise of the feed.
Clear deterrent to the SHs.
Massive help on 3G pitches where a traditional "heel mark" is totally impractical.


Negatives:
Suggestion that Rugby players may be cheats. We don't do that sort of "soccer" thing.
Ref should be able to ref it properly without the line.
Ir slows the game down (I'm not sure it does). How long does it take to remove a small (breath freshener size) spray from your pocket bend and spray. I doubt that it would be a significant difference to the traditional method.


Looking at the above "pros and cons", on balance I like the idea. I'm not convinced that the "cons" stand up to scrutiny. I'd like refs to have the choice. On the 3G pitches I would say they should be come standard.
 

Dixie


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Pegleg, I don't think it would help the feed - but would indeed be useful for lineout and scrum locations. Crossref, how long do the FR's take to organise themselves in your games? My experience was that I'd hold an arm out for about 10 seconds before the first FR hove into view. Plenty of time to spray the mark.

I think Pegleg is onto something here. I predict we'll see it at Alliance Park after the World Cup.
 

Pegleg

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I think it will help because it will lead to more remedial actions from refs, dumb SHs will get the message and thus we will see less crooked feeds.
 

crossref


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I am coming round to the idea of spray for scrums.
I think the front rwo would like it: my observation is that front rows *want* to see a clear mark (sometime if a mark I have made isn't clear, the FR will ask 'where's the mark?' and the spray would be clearer.

For the put in, it would invite a clear defintiion of what is 'straight' : I want the see the ball hit the spray...


for me the downside is perhaps having to bend down. A ref wants to be heads-up not heads-down But that's a small thing.
 

Pegleg

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Good point about the heads down / heads up thing. Less of an issue for the top end of the game where ARs will cover those milliseconds but even at all levels it will be not be a lot of time. I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.
 

Dan_A

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Personally I think it would be too time consuming. For me, soccer suffers from a large degree of petty "cheating" that is seen as part of the game. It is so clear that, before the spray, defensive walls were routinely suffling forward. The referee could easily see that happening. So why not just penalise the offending behaviour by awarding a new free kick where the wall is (and a penalty if that is inside the box) or dishing out a yellow card, rather than faff about with a spray can.

I would take a very similar line with other petty crimes in football including, but not limited to swearing, shirt pulling, diving, time wasting and stealing yards at lineouts.

Soccer has a problem in that the majority of players breaks these minor rules most of the time. Strict enforcement would end that.
 

Pegleg

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And rugby does not? Just to give few examples; Feeding, Pillars, Flankers breaking early, Backs encroaching the 5 or 10 and Scrums taken down because the "hit" was lost. Before anyone says that the hit has been removed. It's still alive and ignored by many of us.

I might be a newbie on here but I already sense a real hostility to the round ball game. I think some need to take a reality check and smell the proverbial Java. Rugby is beset with "petty crime". Physicians heal thyselves!
 

crossref


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i think we have come to a conclusion that spray at a PK/FK is unnecessary, but spray for a scrum is quite an interesting idea.

for a lineout I don't see much value in spray. I mark the defensive line where to stand, and tell the throwers to create the gap. that seems to work just fine
 

Simon Thomas


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I can see benefits in it's use for scrum, line out, and PK/FK marks.

At the Elite levels I suspect it is likely to be introduced.

In the Community game too I can see it maybe being used at the higher levels, but see one major barrier at most levels covered by Societies (where the majority of matches take place) - who is going to pay for the cans (currently £GBP 9 per 105 ml can) ?

So over a season how many matches does each can cover on average ? We cover 2,500 matches per season so it could be a significant extra cost. So say a can lasts for 9 matches that means a cost of £1 per match, which we would have to add to the match fee, which clubs complain about as it is anyway and any increase we introduce to cover ref travel, training and admin costs.
 
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crossref


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it will probably be like touch judge flags -- the referee ends up buying his own :(
 

Browner

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Pegleg, I don't think it would help the feed - but would indeed be useful for lineout and scrum locations. Crossref, how long do the FR's take to organise themselves in your games? My experience was that I'd hold an arm out for about 10 seconds before the first FR hove into view. Plenty of time to spray the mark.

I think Pegleg is onto something here. I predict we'll see it at Alliance Park after the World Cup.

I hope he isnt, & I really hope we don't.

3g acceptance knew that a ' mark' wouldnt be a dent in the soil ....... I see no evidence of a problem existing in the matches I've seen? ..anyone?????

Over fussyness on the exact position of lines/marks is, IMO, the thin edge of another wedge,& spraying opens another can of worms (replacement can? the spray jamming? costs? ref forgets? Allergy? Eyes? Etc Etc...)

But a moveable (controlled by TMO) offside line projected down onto the pitch that has the ability to electric shock a player who is offside, now that is technology helping!!!!!

Seriously, please 'can' the can idea. Its not broke, it dont need fixing.
 
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