Standards

[spikeno10]

In the last two weeks my Colts have had two games both taken by gentlemen wearing society kit.
We have had the following;
- Can't wear those boots as they have football studs.
- At scrumtime, "Crouch, touch, engage"
- Following a Y/C for dissent (pointing out the correct CTPE!!!!) we faced an 8 v 7 scrum.
- Scrum wheeled and reset with the put in turned over

Those were the stand out issues there were numerous applications of the whistle for wholly immaterial issues in a friendly Colts game which in turn led to both teams getting frustrated and the issues this creates with 30 annoyed young men.

Whilst I appreciate these gentlemen giving up the time I am concerned that the level of knowledge of the LoTG which apply to this age group are either not known or roundly ignored or maybe we are just unlucky.

 

[Toby Warren]

A constructive word, with examples, to the Society would be in order, espcially the CTE issue.

 

[Simon Thomas]

as Toby says - constructive specific examples to the Society. All very concerning and poor level of match official performance.

Were they Society appointments or just Club Refs / ex-Society Refs wearing the Society shirt - which is why we insist only our appointed refs wear them.

 

[spikeno10]

Doubt they were society appointments as the games were friendlies (we do not have leagues here).
I understand both gentlemen were attached to the host clubs.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Did refereeing in a blazer and cravat not give it away?:biggrin:

The CT(P)E is a concern as that is the universal bit.

On that basis it's perhaps no wonder the other stuff passed them by.

Was it 5pts for a try?

If they are not Society members/appointments then I'm not sure what you can do other than perhaps approach the host club who are likely to tell you to "do one" or perhaps plead they go with the volunteers they've got?

 

[Simon Thomas]

or perhaps raise it with the RFU ClubRefereeDevelopmentManager for Norfolk / Eastern Counties and the CrefCs at the clubs involved.

 

[crossref]

If they are not Society members/appointments then I'm not sure what you can do other than perhaps approach the host club who are likely to tell you to "do one" or perhaps plead they go with the volunteers they've got?

If someone from another club emailed me as CRefC with something like that, I guess I would just forward it on to the ref concerned.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

If someone from another club emailed me as CRefC with something like that, I guess I would just forward it on to the ref concerned.

Would that elicit some improvement or a "if you can do any better"?

 

[crossref]

- well I think all refs would like to be made aware of any actual Law errors they are making (even if the precise moment of being made aware isn't much fun!)

- I don't think any of my fellow club-refs would say 'if you think you can do better' to me: for I am one of them, out there regularly on a Sunday doing my best.

Like many CRefC's I am sure, I am only a co-ordinator, not a chief, nor an appointer, and certainly not the most experienced, senior or able ref in the club, in fact one of the newest. So it's not part of my role of attempt to coach other refs. It's more about passing on secret emails and phoning around on a friday trying to help find someone at the last minute for the U16B fixture that wasn't on the fixture list :smile:

 

[Dixie]

Spike, I think that anyone wearing Society kit and attached to a club, doing club games at a relatively high level (colts friendlies can be at least as tough as a L.7/8) should be of cponcern to the Society - not least because of the reputational damage. If these chaps had a genuine entitlement to wear the kit (i.e. they are current Society members) then they have a training need for adult games as well as junior ones. If they had no entitlement to wear the kit, a strong word with the CRefC may be in order.

So I'd email the Society chairman, copying the club's CRefC, acknowledging the possibility that these chaps may not be current Society members, but either need training if they are, or "cease and desist" if not, so that the Society can continue to hold its head up in polite society.

 

[OB..]

- well I think all refs would like to be made aware of any actual Law errors they are making

I wish that were true!

 

[crossref]

If they had no entitlement to wear the kit, a strong word with the CRefC may be in order. .

It's more between them and the Society isn't it?

I mean from my CRefC perspective
-- if it turned out that one our club refs was was a complete imposter -- wearing a Society shirt he'd bought on eBay without ever having been a member, then of course we would be very embarrassed and I (or more likely a 'blazer') would take action.

But that's not likely, more likely the ref is, indeed, a Society member and it's his shirt. It's up to Society to tell members when or where they can wear their shirts, I think.

 

[crossref]

I wish that were true!

well, it's not very nice finding out... and I bet that's what you are thinknig of.
... but anyone would rather that than being left to make the mistake again and again, wouldn't they?

 

[OB..]

It's up to Society to tell members when or where they can wear their shirts, I think.

Yes, but they won't know unless you tell them.

 

[crossref]

but I'm not in any Society so how would I know what's right? Some society refs seem to think it's OK with their society, some don't, perhaps the policy varies across Societies..

Anyway it's not up to me , I think it's up to Society to make policy and communicate it.


Update - - what I HAVE done is, last time this was discussed here - two seasons ago? I did include in a note to refs that those who were in a Scociety should check with their Society about wearing Society shirts when not appointed.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

FWIW we are NOT supposed to wear out Society garb unless it's an appointment.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Our society does not appoint to youth games, there are not enough of us.
I would have a constructive word at a suitable break, that's all you can do on the day but definitely report concerns to the society.
Of course sadly the alternative may be no game

 

[Simon Thomas]

same in Hampshire - for LLP and CTrainors posts

 

[crossref]

this season we are having lots of luck getting society refs - from LSFUR - appointed to many (but not all) of our U17 games. epper:

below that though we cover our own.

 

[PaulDG]

In the last two weeks my Colts have had two games both taken by gentlemen wearing society kit.
....

Are you sure it was society kit?

I only ask because I've often been told someone was a Society Ref because "he was wearing a society shirt" when actually he was wearing an ELRA shirt.