[Law] Superbowl - advantage question.

[Camquin]

In Superbowl LV Tampa Bay were attempting a field goal when Kansas City gave away a penalty. After the flag was thrown -so effectively while plying advantage - the kick was good.

Tampa Bay decided to turn down the score and accept the penalty which gave them a first down. This meant they retaind possession and they went on to score a touch down.

So i wondered, could a rugby side do the equivalent, could they turn down a drop goal in order to take a penalty in order to attempt to score a try - or would the successful kick always stand.

I think the latter.

 

[didds]

Not quite following your thread here - what drop goal would they be spurning? One they made in open play and the PK became apparent AFTERWARDS? Im not aware of any law or protocol that would afford that?

 

[Decorily]

Not quite following your thread here - what drop goal would they be spurning? One they made in open play and the PK became apparent AFTERWARDS? Im not aware of any law or protocol that would afford that?

The scenario I believe would be...

Referee calls advantage Red....Red 10 has a drop at goal and scores..
Red Captain then asks Ref to go back for the penalty advantage as they need to score a try and the DG is no good to them.

Can Ref facilitate this request or has the DG ended advantage?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

No for me. Player chose to drop kick and was successful if he wanted the penalty turn down the advantage in the first place.

 

[crossref]

The scenario I believe would be...

Referee calls advantage Red....Red 10 has a drop at goal and scores..
Red Captain then asks Ref to go back for the penalty advantage as they need to score a try and the DG is no good to them.

Can Ref facilitate this request or has the DG ended advantage?

perhaps if the ref had just told them they needed three points to win, and then realised he had made a mistake and they needed 5.
otherwise I think no

 

[Jz558]

How about if the player who, in the act of scoring a drop goal, was charged late so that if he had missed the referee would have come back for the penalty. Can the scoring side refuse the successful drop goal and come back for the penalty in the hope of scoring a try. Scenario wise it wouldnt be too difficult to think of a reason for prefering this to deny or obtain more bonus points.

 

[Decorily]

perhaps if the ref had just told them they needed three points to win, and then realised he had made a mistake and they needed 5.
otherwise I think no

If the referee can facilitate the request in this scenario then surely they can facilitate in any scenario ie a simple request.

Personally I think I would facilitate and go back similar to options in other scenarios ...penalty here or scrum there etc

 

[Marc Wakeham]

How about if the player who, in the act of scoring a drop goal, was charged late so that if he had missed the referee would have come back for the penalty. Can the scoring side refuse the successful drop goal and come back for the penalty in the hope of scoring a try. Scenario wise it wouldnt be too difficult to think of a reason for prefering this to deny or obtain more bonus points.

I'd still say no the score is advantage gained. Of course, the foul play may have occured "after the score" meaning a PK restart.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Look at it this way if we are playing advantage a score = advantage over. Why change that here?

 

[didds]

The scenario I believe would be...

Referee calls advantage Red....Red 10 has a drop at goal and scores..
Red Captain then asks Ref to go back for the penalty advantage as they need to score a try and the DG is no good to them.

Can Ref facilitate this request or has the DG ended advantage?

you guys will have a definitive answer but maybe the solution would have been for #10 to not drop the goal in the first place, even if it required red captain shouting at him.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

you guys will have a definitive answer but maybe the solution would have been for #10 to not drop the goal in the first place, even if it required red captain shouting at him.

Spot on. Players are responsible for their actions!

 

[crossref]

How about if the player who, in the act of scoring a drop goal, was charged late so that if he had missed the referee would have come back for the penalty. Can the scoring side refuse the successful drop goal and come back for the penalty in the hope of scoring a try. Scenario wise it wouldnt be too difficult to think of a reason for prefering this to deny or obtain more bonus points.

Ingenious !
Especially as the 2nd PK offence happens before the ball goes through the posts ..

 

[Decorily]

you guys will have a definitive answer but maybe the solution would have been for #10 to not drop the goal in the first place, even if it required red captain shouting at him.

As referees we are regularly challenged by scenarios that have no black and white definitive answer.
We must in the moment, usually without the chance to consult or consider at length, make a decision which we believe represents a fair and equitable application of the laws of the game.
We don't always get things exactly right in everyone's eyes....but we do our best.
Achieving our best involves a lot of things including discussing/debating /arguing how certain issues that could arise during a game may be best dealt with.
In all my years refereeing I have never found it appropriate or helpful to tell a player/captain that a solution to a problem would have been if they had done something differently in the first place.

Edited for typo.

 

[crossref]

In all my years refereeing I have never found it appropriate or helpful to tell a player/captain that a solution to a problem would have been if they had done something differently in the first place.

that made me smile

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Interesting question. For me if the DG is scored advantage over score stands.
I understand the American Football scenario but a different game and different rules/laws so no real comparison.
How about this scenario.
The game clock is in the red and kicker is late charged but scores to level game.
so PK restart and can still kick for goal or opt for kick for line out or could the skipper say we want the penalty from the point of the kick before it went over as the ref would not have had time to call new advantage.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Interesting question. For me if the DG is scored advantage over score stands.
I understand the American Football scenario but a different game and different rules/laws so no real comparison.
How about this scenario.
The game clock is in the red and kicker is late charged but scores to level game.
so PK restart and can still kick for goal or opt for kick for line out or could the skipper say we want the penalty from the point of the kick before it went over as the ref would not have had time to call new advantage.

Surely depends on when the offence occured. Before or after the goal was scored?

 

[crossref]

How about this scenario.
The game clock is in the red and kicker is late charged but scores to level game.
so PK restart and can still kick for goal or opt for kick for line out or could the skipper say we want the penalty from the point of the kick before it went over as the ref would not have had time to call new advantage.

It's a good scenario

If they take the DG I think it's the end of the game
But perhaps they could have the PK

Haven't we discussed this before , actually

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Why dos he kick for the 3? If the need the try why not go for it with the advantage? Sorry, they can't have the penny and the bun.

 

[crossref]

Why dos he kick for the 3? If the need the try why not go for it with the advantage? Sorry, they can't have the penny and the bun.

Perhaps 3 is to draw the game, so not optimal, does the late tackle change anything

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Not for me, in terms of the score. He made a choice to go for the draw not the win. His call not mine. A card could well be on the way though.