Tackle Assist

[Taffy]

Game yesterday, me trying extra hard to referee the tackle area with I think, a better result.

A lot of the wisdom from this forum was brought to the pitch yesterday. Thanks.

I was questioned by the red skipper about the tackle assist. He told me that if there was a tackle assist and not the main tackler, then providing he was on his feet he DID NOT HAVE TO RELEASE THE TACKLED PLAYER.

I told him he was wrong and that he was classed as a tackler and therefore had to follow the same rules of releasing, providing some evidence of release before he could then play the ball.

Was I right?

 

[collybs]

You are right.

15.6(c)

Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.

 

[chbg]

Yes and no - he is not a tackler, so he has to approach the ball 'through the gate'; but yes, once the ball carrier is brought to ground, both tacklers and tackler assists must release before playing the ball. If the ball carrier is not brought to ground, then no-one has to release!

 

[Browner]

I had a Coach** last weekend, vociferously claim that "if the player on his feet wrestling for the ball isnt actively attempting to bring the BC to ground, despite a teammate simultaneously doing so (....ie the one high, one low double-up )

15.6(c) who bring the ball carrier to ground

that Mr On Feet isnt caught by the requirements of 15.6.c.

I'd got to a "repeat offence team warning" within 18 mins of the start, as the on-feet participant of the double-team tackle wasn't showing clear release as he continued his wrestling for the ball as BC & teammate went to ground.

The players ( to their credit ) amended to my interpretation, but I overheard his half time chat ( deliberately vocally loud???) where he told the players "to play to my interpretation even though I was clearly wrong, coz sometimes they have to deal with poor referee understanding"

Am I misunderstanding something technical here?

** Coach is RFU L3 Coach, Club DoR, and a ( inactive currently) Society Referee I believe.

 

[FlipFlop]

All players must release the tackled player. So I'm, with you on this. His argument is based on pin head dancing...

 

[Phil E]

.........but I overheard his half time chat ( deliberately vocally loud???) where he told the players "to play to my interpretation even though I was clearly wrong, coz sometimes they have to deal with poor referee understanding"

Coach, we need to talk.....dissent doesn't just apply to the players.....

Am I misunderstanding something technical here?

** Coach is RFU L3 Coach, Club DoR, and a ( inactive currently) Society Referee I believe.

No, he is wrong.....all day long.

 

[Womble]

Interesting, have only had 3 referees that have refereed the tackle assist properly this season ! Biggest non compliance being the tackle assist, having released the ball carrier attempting to play the ball from the wrong side and not entering the "tackle" from the right direction ! This law has been in some 8 years and is still not understood throughout the game by both referees and coaches.

 

[Daftmedic]

I had a Coach** last weekend, vociferously claim that "if the player on his feet wrestling for the ball isnt actively attempting to bring the BC to ground, despite a teammate simultaneously doing so (....ie the one high, one low double-up ) that Mr On Feet isnt caught by the requirements of 15.6.c.

I'd got to a "repeat offence team warning" within 18 mins of the start, as the on-feet participant of the double-team tackle wasn't showing clear release as he continued his wrestling for the ball as BC & teammate went to ground.

The players ( to their credit ) amended to my interpretation, but I overheard his half time chat ( deliberately vocally loud???) where he told the players "to play to my interpretation even though I was clearly wrong, coz sometimes they have to deal with poor referee understanding"

Am I misunderstanding something technical here?

** Coach is RFU L3 Coach, Club DoR, and a ( inactive currently) Society Referee I believe.

phil e said it better than I would.
I may of added now jog on you spawny eyed, parrot face wazzak. Or words to that effect.

 

[Browner]

Interesting, have only had 3 referees that have refereed the tackle assist properly this season !

Biggest non compliance being the tackle assist, having released the ball carrier attempting to play the ball from the wrong side and not entering the "tackle" from the right direction !

This law has been in some 8 years and is still not understood throughout the game by both referees and coaches.

Womble,
the Coach was (I'm reliably informed) refereeing as a L6 before he commenced his adult coaching !
Perhaps he thinks that old badge alone qualifies him to know more than me.

 

[Phil E]

Womble,
the Coach was (I'm reliably informed) refereeing as a L6 before he commenced his adult coaching !
Perhaps he thinks that old badge alone qualifies him to know more than me.

It's not unusual for SOME "older" referees to not be up to date with the latest laws, interpretations and clarifications.

 

[Womble]

What level doesn't matter ! My response to any one with a doubt about how to referee the tackle & assist tackle is that the law has been there for over 8 years ! As I am coaching now, ( and coach inside the law book) it frustrates me that the tackle is still not refereed properly at most levels ! Bit like the man off rule I guess

 

[Dixie]

Yes and no - he is not a tackler, so he has to approach the ball 'through the gate'; but yes, once the ball carrier is brought to ground, both tacklers and tackler assists must release before playing the ball. If the ball carrier is not brought to ground, then no-one has to release!

Interesting, have only had 3 referees that have refereed the tackle assist properly this season ! Biggest non compliance being the tackle assist, having released the ball carrier attempting to play the ball from the wrong side and not entering the "tackle" from the right direction ! This law has been in some 8 years and is still not understood throughout the game by both referees and coaches.

It's not unusual for SOME "older" referees to not be up to date with the latest laws, interpretations and clarifications.

OY! Wind yer long neck in, Admiral!

I've taken some liberties with Womble's post through selective quoting, but the bits in red have the potential to confuse the OP who is trying hard to get his head around all this.

Scenario 1: Blue 12 and Blue 13 both engage Red 13 and drive him backwards. Red 13 falls ov er with Blue 13 on top of him. We now have a tackle, a tackled player and a tackler. Blue 12 as tackle assist must release everything, but having done so is now perfectly at liberty to play the ball provided that during the tackle he has not strayed in front of his colleague or the tackled player. He does not need to re-enter through the gate.

Scenario 2: As above, but Blue 13 is not engaged. When Red 13 falls over, there is a tackle but no tackler. Blue 12 (still on his feet) as tackle assist must release everything, but having done so is now perfectly at liberty to play the ball provided that during the tackle he has not strayed in front of his colleague or the tackled player. He does not need to re-enter through the gate.

Scenario 3: As in 2 above, but when Red 13 falls over, Blue 12's momentum takes him a step beyond the tackled player. This scenario is controversial, but I believe the majority would require Blue 12 to exit and re-enter the tackle zone through the gate, and thus would ping him for "illegal entry" if he simply stepped backward over the tackled player to engage the ball from the correct angle.

 

[tim White]

It's not unusual for SOME "older" referees to not be up to date with the latest laws, interpretations and clarifications.

Age is no measure of understanding in this area;

I freely admit I cannot get my head round the 'man off' rule and have not had a clear explanation off anyone -DON'T point me to the flowchart!

 

[crossref]

Age is no measure of understanding in this area;

it's not age : it's how long since you last reffed.
it's hard to stay current if you are not involved.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Interesting, have only had 3 referees that have refereed the tackle assist properly this season ! Biggest non compliance being the tackle assist, having released the ball carrier attempting to play the ball from the wrong side and not entering the "tackle" from the right direction ! This law has been in some 8 years and is still not understood throughout the game by both referees and coaches.

I opened a law clinic on the tackle area with the question what defined, in law, a tackler as against a tackler assist. The room was nearly unanimous in thinking it was to do with the first person attempting to make the tackle, or the primary tackler or something similar. This included some senior regional coaches and many good-level players. I was pretty surprised! I also had an extended discussion earlier this year with the head coach of Ecosse Sevens who simply refused to believe that a player involved in making a tackle (from the side) but who stayed on their feet still had to go through the tackle gate even if there wasn't also a tackler on the ground. Considering he gets paid pretty well to do the job, and the type of competitions in which Ecosse regularly compete, I was somewhat surprised. (NOTE: Edited for additional clarity!)

 

[Womble]

surprised I am not !! Maybe these guys just aint being educated ! I believe it to be a big issue in the game as a whole & needs some serious work at all levels for both coaches and referees

 

[OB..]

The tackle assist is not a ball carrier nor a tackler. He therefore comes under Other Players (15.6)
[LAWS]15.6 (c) [FONT=fs_blakeregular]Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.[/FONT][/LAWS]

 

[crossref]

I had a 'discussion' earlier this season with a coach who was convinced that if a player remained on his feet there was no need for him to release the ball carrier at all. (and therefore it was the ball carrier whom I should have PK'd for not releasing, blah blah)

granted this was a L11 coach, not a L6 one .. but still...

 

[Phil E]

Age is no measure of understanding in this area;

I freely admit I cannot get my head round the 'man off' rule and have not had a clear explanation off anyone -DON'T point me to the flowchart!

I should qualify my earlier statement.

By older refs, I mean people who have been reffing for a long time, not necessarily refs that are of an advanced age.
Refs who have "been around the block" know the laws, so stop reading the law book, and subsequently tend to stop keeping up to date with new variations or changes to the law. Especially if they can't, or won't attend Society training sessions.

I ran touch for a ref the other week who was saying "yes 9" at the scrums; and was amazed when I pointed out to him that we didn't do that any more. He was also oblivious of the World Rugby directive about when the ball is out (lifted off the floor). This really confused the players when he said "two hands on is out" because they had just got used to 'two hands on is NOT out; off the floor is out'.

 

[Pinky]

OY! Wind yer long neck in, Admiral!

I've taken some liberties with Womble's post through selective quoting, but the bits in red have the potential to confuse the OP who is trying hard to get his head around all this.

Scenario 1: Blue 12 and Blue 13 both engage Red 13 and drive him backwards. Red 13 falls ov er with Blue 13 on top of him. We now have a tackle, a tackled player and a tackler. Blue 12 as tackle assist must release everything, but having done so is now perfectly at liberty to play the ball provided that during the tackle he has not strayed in front of his colleague or the tackled player. He does not need to re-enter through the gate.

Scenario 2: As above, but Blue 13 is not engaged. When Red 13 falls over, there is a tackle but no tackler. Blue 12 (still on his feet) as tackle assist must release everything, but having done so is now perfectly at liberty to play the ball provided that during the tackle he has not strayed in front of his colleague or the tackled player. He does not need to re-enter through the gate.

Scenario 3: As in 2 above, but when Red 13 falls over, Blue 12's momentum takes him a step beyond the tackled player. This scenario is controversial, but I believe the majority would require Blue 12 to exit and re-enter the tackle zone through the gate, and thus would ping him for "illegal entry" if he simply stepped backward over the tackled player to engage the ball from the correct angle.

Sc 1 B12 also has to play from behind the ball

Sc 2 B12 must also play from behind the ball

Sc 3 but if B12 simply puts a knee down he is a tackler and can play the ball from any direction once he releases and stands up again