Tackle Assist

[Womble]

So, though I am not a coach, but putting my "coaches hat" on, would it be sound advise to tackler assists to take a knee so as to no longer be required to exit the tackle area and reenter through the gate? Does dropping to a knee momentarily, constitute going to ground?

It sure does

 

[crossref]

So, though I am not a coach, but putting my "coaches hat" on, would it be sound advise to tackler assists to take a knee so as to no longer be required to exit the tackle area and reenter through the gate? Does dropping to a knee momentarily, constitute going to ground?

if they are on the wrong side of the ball, yes, they may better off being a tackler than a tackle assist - but often tackle assists are on their own side of of the ball, and then better off staying on their feet.

 

[tim White]

I thought we sorted out the 'going to ground' bit much, much earlier - you can only go to ground as part of the tackling process to be considered a Tackler, NOT as an afterthought, and not only to make people think you are a Tackler.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Agree with Tim, but of course it is very difficult for a referee to tell provided the going to ground (by touching a knee) is done well. Ben Ryan is an acquaintance (and ex-coach) of mine and I can confirm that he coached the England (and now presumably coaches the Fiji) Sevens players to aim to at least "bump a knee" as part of the tackle in order to gain the rights afforded to a tackler under the law.

 

[Browner]

Through the gate from either direction? That is, can a tackle assist, in the tackle zone but on the ops side of the ball, simply step back over the body of the BC to be on his side of ball & body?

Seems to me that there is no specific prohibition of that.

Law[FONT=fs_blakeregular] Ruling 8 of 2004 stated that the players who are not tacklers are covered by Law 15.7(c) (2008 Law) and those players can only play the ball if they approach from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal-line.[/FONT]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]To approach behind the tackled player means the tackle has taken place and the revised Law 15.6 (c) (2009) makes that very clear.[/FONT]

Does the use of "approach" ( twice) in the clarification effectively outlaw the 'step back' you describe?

 

[Dixie]

15.6(c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

For me the bit in bold clearly says he must enter the tackle zone through the gate. My understanding has always been that at a tackle, only the ball carrier and any tacklers are legitimately inside the zone to start with. All "Other Players" must enter through the gate, and that includes tackle assists.

OB, while I don't doubt that your understanding of this is founded on what we were all told first up when the tackle zone was originally policed in this way, things move on. The majority of decent-level refs were not around to hear the "off-the-ball" murmurings from the decision-makers and now have only the law to work from. Looking at that law, there is nothing clear from the bit in bold about exiting the tackle zone and re-entering. To the contrary, it seems absolutely clear that he does NOT have to do that. The Tackle Assist's obligations are to release both man and ball. Assuming he has done that, let's see what words we have to say that he must now exit the zone and re-enter it through a gate:

[LAWS]Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.[/LAWS]

If the Tackle Assist was (at the moment of the tackle) both behind the ball and behind the two grounded players, the wording very clearly and (in my view) incontrovertibly gives him absolute, untrammelled licence to play the ball without delaying to take six unnecessary steps.

If he was not in the correct position at the moment of the tackle, he must get into that position before playing the ball. Again, I see nothing in there about the six steps needed to get out of the zone, skirt it and re-enter it through a "gate".

In this instance, we must agree to disagree - a status that always makes me feel uncomfortable.

Law Ruling 8 of 2004 stated that the players who are not tacklers are covered by Law 15.7(c) (2008 Law) and those players can only play the ball if they approach from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal-line.

To approach behind the tackled player means the tackle has taken place and the revised Law 15.6 (c) (2009) makes that very clear.

Does the use of "approach" ( twice) in the clarification effectively outlaw the 'step back' you describe?

It is possible that it was intended to, but I don't think that the evidence of the text makes that point on its own. A lot depends what the word "approach" relates to. The pilot of an aircraft on autopilot must, in order to begin his approach, first approach the controls. If pilots' regulations stipulate that an approach must take place from a minimum of 10 miles, does that mean the pilot must first exit his aircraft and wait until he is 10 miles from it before approaching his controls?

The text you refer to probably uses "approach" to refer to the ball - in order to play the ball, the Tackle Assist must approach it from his own side of the tackle. If the word Approach refers to the tackle zone, then yes - but the text does not refer to the tackle zone at all.

 

[OB..]

OB, while I don't doubt that your understanding of this is founded on what we were all told first up when the tackle zone was originally policed in this way, things move on. The majority of decent-level refs were not around to hear the "off-the-ball" murmurings from the decision-makers and now have only the law to work from.

They presumably have their predecessors explaining how to referee all these various situation. They are not starting with a blank sheet.

If he was not in the correct position at the moment of the tackle, he must get into that position before playing the ball. Again, I see nothing in there about the six steps needed to get out of the zone, skirt it and re-enter it through a "gate".

"Six steps"? Who said that?

It is entirely possible that the tackle assist is immediatley in a legal position after release. That legal position means he is "behind the ball and ... directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line."
If not, he must get to that position.

Stepping back over bodies on the grounds seems a dodgy thing to do Taking the shortest route out of the tackle zone is the most sensible.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Wayne Barnes in the Falcons v Welsh match, penalizing a Welsh player (I'm afraid I can't recall who) who was retreating over the body of the tackled player in the way Dixie suggests may happen: "You're not a tackler - you must go around." "But I made the tackle!" "You didn't go to ground, so you are not a tackler, so you must go around". This is bang in line with the general perception, as evinced by OB et al.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Stepping back over bodies on the grounds seems a dodgy thing to do Taking the shortest route out of the tackle zone is the most sensible.

I agree. I also regularly see another thing that annoys me at tackles. Its tacklers or tackle assists that end up on the left or right side of the ball/tackled player and on the opponents side of the tackle zone, who then run to close across the back of the opponent's side of the tacle to get into position in their defensive line. IMO, this is gamesmanship, trying to marginally slow down opposing ball. They should be running around their own side of the tackle zone....

Red is -playing up the page
Red players must take the white path to their
defensive line, not the black path.

Its only a fraction of a second delay, but things happen so quickly at the tackle zone, that fractions of a second are often significant.