Tackled players pops ball to an opponent.

[FightOrFlight]

I'm fairly sure I got this right but just double checking. Was out doing a game at the weekend at a level lower than I am used to with considerably less understanding of law etc.

Red 11 made a break and was tackled by Blue 15 in open field. Red 11 goes to ground and pops the ball back toward a support player but he miss-throws and the ball is caught by Blue 6 who is retiring back...I call play on but Red players coaches etc all call offside. Blue attack in broken field and score a try.

Post game Red coach tells me that he is going to call the area coordinator and ask "why refs with so little clue are allowed ref at this level"(what level says I?:tongue

Thoughts?

 

[Rushforth]

I was under the general impression that there was no off-side line in open play, but rather that it only comes into being again when a ruck or maul is formed, at which point it is in both cases the hindmost foot for each respective team.

But clearly red coach has other information. Was he drinking black stuff?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

:biggrin:

You're right - he's wrong.

As he will be when he rings the area co-ordinator.

 

[crossref]

no offside line at the tackle, so play on

EXCEPT THAT Blue 6 (retiring player) can only enter the tackle area from his own side, so if he caught the pop pass really close to the tackle he might have been guilty of that.

 

[Guyseep]

no offside line at the tackle, so play on

EXCEPT THAT Blue 6 (retiring player) can only enter the tackle area from his own side, so if he caught the pop pass really close to the tackle he might have been guilty of that.

I would argue on a pop pass there is no need to enter through the gate as the ball carrier has essentially played the ball away from the tackle zone. If he instead placed it rather near to him (1m or so) then entry through the gate should apply.

 

[crossref]

i would agree except in odd circumstances - for instance the pop pass could be vertically upwards, and snatched by oppo, in which case he arguably in the tackle area and hasn't come through gate.

 

[Dixie]

i would agree except in odd circumstances - for instance the pop pass could be vertically upwards, and snatched by oppo, in which case he arguably in the tackle area and hasn't come through gate.

Interesting point -which again shows the wisdom of OB's call for a more clear transition from one phase to another. Does the tackle end (and thus the tackle zone disappear) when the ball carrier passes the ball? It's not immediately obvious why it should - that is not the case when he places it and releases - but I suspect that's what the crowd and most players would expect.

 

[Taff]

... EXCEPT THAT Blue 6 (retiring player) can only enter the tackle area from his own side, so if he caught the pop pass really close to the tackle he might have been guilty of that.

Quite. The Lazy Runner law doesn't apply to tackles - just LOs, Scrums, rucks and mauls.

I haven't got the law reference to hand, but I seem to remember that the gate still applies "near the tackle". And "near" is defined as 1m. Ie

• If the ball is still inside the 1m area the gate applies.
• If the ball is passed outside the 1m area, the gate doesn't apply.

That's the way I understand it anyway. How far did Red 11 pass the ball?

 

[Ian_Cook]

I'm fairly sure I got this right but just double checking. Was out doing a game at the weekend at a level lower than I am used to with considerably less understanding of law etc.

Red 11 made a break and was tackled by Blue 15 in open field. Red 11 goes to ground and pops the ball back toward a support player but he miss-throws and the ball is caught by Blue 6 who is retiring back...I call play on but Red players coaches etc all call offside. Blue attack in broken field and score a try.

Post game Red coach tells me that he is going to call the area coordinator and ask "why refs with so little clue are allowed ref at this level"(what level says I?:tongue

Thoughts?

Play on, and quick thinking by you. Well done.

I have seen this sort of scenario called offside because its one of the few things in the game that instinctively looks wrong, but isn't.

The coach is a numpty!

ETA: The only condition I would apply is that if the tackle was in the immediate vicinity of a ruck (as in a pick and go) and Blue 6 was offside at that ruck, you might conceivably ping him for loitering (Law 11.9)

[LAWS]11.9 LOITERING
A player who remains in an offside position is loitering. A loiterer who prevents the opposing
team from playing the ball as they wish is taking part in the game, and is penalised. The
referee makes sure that the loiterer does not benefit from being put onside by the opposing
team’s action.
Sanction: Penalty kick at the offending player’s offside line[/LAWS]

As far as Blue 6 not entering through the gate, I do not think that is relevant. Blue 6 didn't go into the tackle zone to get the ball, Red 11 (the tackled player) threw it to him. He needs to look where he is throwing the ball.

 

[Taff]

... As far as Blue 6 not entering through the gate, I do not think that is relevant. Blue 6 didn't go into the tackle zone to get the ball, Red 11 (the tackled player) threw it to him..

Sorry Ian, but how do you know Blue 6 didn't go into the tackle zone? The OP doesn't say where he was.

The relevant law is 15.6(d), and the most relevant bit (IMO) is highlited. IMO, we need to know whether Blue 6 was within 1m of the tackle before we can decide if an offence was committed or not. If he was more than 1m then play on. If he was within 1m then it's a PK.

15.6 (d). At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Near: Within one metre.

 

[Daftmedic]

:biggrin:

You're right - he's wrong.

As he will be when he rings the area co-ordinator.

Guinness? That doesn't make you say that!

 

[Daftmedic]

Oopppssss didn't see the test of the comments. Yes before you all ask. Tuesday is my Friday

 

[Ian_Cook]

Sorry Ian, but how do you know Blue 6 didn't go into the tackle zone? The OP doesn't say where he was.

The relevant law is 15.6(d), and the most relevant bit (IMO) is highlited. IMO, we need to know whether Blue 6 was within 1m of the tackle before we can decide if an offence was committed or not.

15.6 (d). At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Near: Within one metre.

Agree, we don't know exactly where Blue 6 is in relation to the tackle, but I'm not going to PK him if Red 11 is stupid enough to throw it straight to him. Why should Red 11 benefit from his own incompetence?

Blue 6 is retiring, onside, when a tackle happens right in front of him and the ball pops into his hands. Sorry, but that is play-on in my book. It would be different if Red 11 had rolled the ball back along the ground, and Blue 6 had bent down to pick it up when near the tackle, because that is a conscious intent to play the ball. Equity demands that there ought to be difference between going after the ball at a tackle, and having the ball come to you.


YMMV

 

[Dickie E]

I agree with Taff.

 

[menace]

I agree with Taff.

View attachment 3007

(Seeing if it works on Dickie?)

 

[damo]

It might have been illegal as the others say if the receiver was within a metre of the tackle. I would say that it is very unlikely that you were wrong. Even if you were wrong, the coach is certainly wrong to say he was offside, and it would only be by coincidence if he happened to have been correct. Next time this happens, just calmly state that until a ruck/maul has been formed it is general play and there's no offside line, so how could he be offside.

These incidents look funny and they look wrong, but provided a ruck has not been formed, it is almost always play on.

 

[Balones]

I realise that a lot of action around the tackle can look wrong.
As everyone knows there are no offside lines at a tackle.
The 'through the gate' requirement only applies to contesting the ball when the ball is still in the tackle. Once a supporting player has lifted the ball out of the tackle, (off the floor) regardless of the 1M as people have said we now have a player in possession and is available to be tackled themselves. (I know it looks very wrong.)
In the OP the ball has left the tackle by the fact it was passed (badly) so anyone can try to access it.
There is nothing in law that says definitely that one metre is the tackle area. It is just a rule of thumb to guide refs but a better guide is about an arm's length.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I realise that a lot of action around the tackle can look wrong.
As everyone knows there are no offside lines at a tackle.
The 'through the gate' requirement only applies to contesting the ball when the ball is still in the tackle. Once a supporting player has lifted the ball out of the tackle, (off the floor) regardless of the 1M as people have said we now have a player in possession and is available to be tackled themselves. (I know it looks very wrong.)
In the OP the ball has left the tackle by the fact it was passed (badly) so anyone can try to access it.
There is nothing in law that says definitely that one metre is the tackle area. It is just a rule of thumb to guide refs but a better guide is about an arm's length.

!00% agree with this

When a ruck offside line disappears, any players who were offside remain out of the game until made onside. However this is not the case with the tackle gate. When it disappears, it does not matter where you were, you are in the game again

The OP says Blue 6 was "retiring" so I have to assume he was in motion. The moment the ball left Red 11's hands, the tackle was over, the gate disappeared. Blue 6 was entitled to catch the ball. The only way that Blue 6 could have been penalised is if he actually entered the tackle zone (presumably from Red's side of the tackle) and the referee already called and signalled advantage for side entry before Red 11 passed thet ball. The referree would need to have been "gunslinger quick" to have done that.

 

[Dickie E]

a better guide is about an arm's length.

why? Arm lengths vary

 

[Dickie E]

The moment the ball left Red 11's hands, the tackle was over, the gate disappeared.

Disagree. Otherwise players could enter from anywhere once the tackled player laid the ball back even by a cm. The ball needs to move outside the 1 metre radius for the tackle to end.