The importance of learning one's lessons...

didds

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facebook round these parts is buzzing with the news!

didds
 

MattyP


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Interesting. Is that the first time someone has been imprisoned in the UK as a result of a fight on a rugby field? I would like to know a little more of the facts, e.g., was the convicted the instigator (as opposed to just the better, harder puncher), whether the second hit was after he had already "ended" the fight etc. Didds - any gossip on that?

From the photo is looked like they were both going at it. It's hard to see how one would plead guilty to GBH unless you were clearly the instigator, or unless the force used was beyond that reasonably needed in self defence - for example, he knocks the guy down with his first punch, then gives him another wack for good measure.

I might add that if Weston's left hook is that good, the pictured ref is standing a little close for comfort...
 

Simon Thomas


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MattyP - I can't give you exact examples but I do recall cases in the past (few and far between) of offenders being taken to court, but I cannot be sure if any were jailed.

In my time as Society Chairman (7 years) we have had four cases of police involvement with alleged assault - two involved referee red card dismissals, and two unseen off-the-ball incidents (one cited by the assessor, the other by the victim's club).

Witness statements taken, incuding the referee, lots of admin and meetings with clubs, County RFU management and disciplinary committees and in three cases the RFU Disciplinary Manager too.

One case went no further than a police warning, in two cases the police were advised by the CPS to not prosecute, and in one it did go to court and a non-custodial sentance awarded. In all four cases, after police involvement was completed, the usual CB Discpline Hearings took place and various bans were imposed.

Based on my experiences of these four cases, and others which have had no police involvement, the overall sentiment is that such thuggery has no place on the rugby pitch. Also the common argument of self-defence is in reality not sustainable when an injury is caused. Time after time I have seen "changing-room" lawyers and defendants pleading not guilty, who argue the self defence line, or provocation & retaliation argument, be taken to pieces by the Disciplinary Committee and found guilty.
 

TheBFG


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same story has been going for a little while here: http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?14368-How-common-is-this-type-of-thing&highlight=

MattyP, if you read the article on the 4th page of the above thread you'll see a bit more information and photos.

My understanding is that there had been a scuffle, which the ref had spotted and blown for, but the Keynsham player then came in from behind and threw 2 punches, which apparently broke the guys jaw.

He pleaded guilty to GBH without intent (sounds like bad advising) and got 6 months for it.

As Didds has saif the local Facebook pages are going nuts over it and the comments at the bottom of the news report on the above link (page 4) echo local thoughts!
 
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MattyP


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Wow. After doing a little press trawl, seeing some of the photos, and hearing the evidence (it's a bit hard for the police not to prosecute when it happens right in front of the ref) it's not a surprising outcome. The guy clearly joined the fracas, by the looks of it after it was mostly over, with intent to do damage.

This is the exact same scenario that we discussed in my Criminal Law class (in Australia - we know something about criminals) 20-odd years ago - the question being, how much violence does a rugby player accept by taking the field? At what point does a "mere" breach of the laws of the game warrant prosecution for being a crime. This type of action is thuggery of the highest order - up there with intentional eye-gouging, perhaps short of an Eric Cantona like flying kick - which clearly crosses the line and warrants being dealt with by law enforcement officials and not just the organizers of the game. Whether the perp is a good bloke, has a good job etc is irrelevant - even if it's all true, given that is sounds from Pablo like he has some past form in this regard and maybe thinks he's a little "handy" (apparently he is!).
 

Dixie


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This is the exact same scenario that we discussed in my Criminal Law class (in Australia - we know something about criminals) 20-odd years ago - the question being, how much violence does a rugby player accept by taking the field? At what point does a "mere" breach of the laws of the game warrant prosecution for being a crime.
Donal from this parish recently did a thesis on almost exactly that. I'm sure a copy can be found somewhere in the archive.
 

didds

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nothing to add than has been already mentioned above Matty I am afraid.

didds
 

FlipFlop


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In the UK there is a legal document (copy at Twickenham that I have seen), that details what is legally "acceptable" on a rugby field, outside of the laws of the game (everything inside is legal). And what people are deemed to have accepted when stepping onto a field.
 

Pablo


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One interesting reflection - IIRC, in my red card incident with Weston, the Keynsham club rallied around him and threw someone else under the bus. They insisted I had got the wrong guy (I hadn't) and it now makes me wonder if he had previous even then... It also poses the question in my mind - if Keynsham had been honest five years ago and Weston had taken the ban, would he have learned his lesson and now not be in jail?
 

TheBFG


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good friend of mine was in a very awkward position last Sat, reffin at the afore mentioned club (no problems on the field!) afterwards in the club they are doing a collection to help fund Weston's legal appeal, as a ref what do you do?
 

Bunniksider


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good friend of mine was in a very awkward position last Sat, reffin at the afore mentioned club (no problems on the field!) afterwards in the club they are doing a collection to help fund Weston's legal appeal, as a ref what do you do?

Ask where the collection bucket is for the chap who was assaulted!
 

OB..


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good friend of mine was in a very awkward position last Sat, reffin at the afore mentioned club (no problems on the field!) afterwards in the club they are doing a collection to help fund Weston's legal appeal, as a ref what do you do?
Plead a referee's neutrality.
 

Davet

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See the bucket coming and circulate ahead of it, and then behind it.

just as if it were a charity bucket.... ask any Yorkshireman to show you the technique.
 

Adam


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See the bucket coming and circulate ahead of it, and then behind it.

just as if it were a charity bucket.... ask any Yorkshireman to show you the technique.

Or any student.
 

L'irlandais

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An oft misinterpretated gem of Yorkshire wisdom :
'If ever tha does owt for nowt, do it for tha sen.'
(In English that's : If ever you do anything for nothing, do it for yourself.)
 

Davet

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Along with
"hear all, see all, say nowt; eat all, drink all, pay nowt."
 

Simon Thomas


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good friend of mine was in a very awkward position last Sat, reffin at the afore mentioned club (no problems on the field!) afterwards in the club they are doing a collection to help fund Weston's legal appeal, as a ref what do you do?

stay independent, and politely decline to contribute.
 

TheBFG


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Adding salt to it?

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/Jailed-...eston-handed/story-15522936-detail/story.html

The Keynsham RFC player jailed for breaking the jaw of an opponent during a Bath Combination Cup match will be banned for 40 weeks when he is released from prison.

Number eight Jack Weston is in the second week of a six-month prison term after admitting GBH, a punishment which has stimulated debate across the West Country's rugby community and beyond.


Now the Chronicle understands that the RFU's chief disciplinary officer, Judge Jeff Blackett, has ordered that Weston face a nine- month ban from the game following his release.
 
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