They have to wait for us sir?

Rich_NL

Rugby Expert
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,623
Post Likes
501
You don't have to check with the ref, but it does seem prudent.
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,148
Post Likes
1,839
"OI REF! REFF! YES, REF!! I WANT TO TAKE A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH... PARDON? NO... I WANT TO THROW IN... NO, ME THROWING IN, DIFFERENT BAL.. NO, NOT A QTI, A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH THE OPPO UNAWARES. YES, NOW. IS THAT OK? PARDON? AH. THANKS REF."

oh. all the oppo have now raced in from everywhere. No point now.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,823
Post Likes
3,157
"OI REF! REFF! YES, REF!! I WANT TO TAKE A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH... PARDON? NO... I WANT TO THROW IN... NO, ME THROWING IN, DIFFERENT BAL.. NO, NOT A QTI, A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH THE OPPO UNAWARES. YES, NOW. IS THAT OK? PARDON? AH. THANKS REF."

oh. all the oppo have now raced in from everywhere. No point now.
posts #48 #49 #50 suggest that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout

does it complicate things if the ref (as often happens) bows whistle to indicate QTI no longer an option, ball is dead can't be thrown in --- but also at the same time meaning it now CAN be thrown in
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,148
Post Likes
1,839
posts #48 #49 #50 suggest that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout

does it complicate things if the ref (as often happens) bows whistle to indicate QTI no longer an option, ball is dead can't be thrown in --- but also at the same time meaning it now CAN be thrown in
and runs away to the zip position, 20+m away making any such check somewhat reduynadnt? hnece my silly post :-0

IN reality I suspect (as Scotland had apparently done) teams would advise the ref they may look to do this so at leats the ref is pre warned
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,136
Post Likes
2,408
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
posts #48 #49 #50 suggest that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout

No they don't, stop making stuff up.
My post (48) says when it's happened to me the players (unprompted) have asked if its ok.
That is a very long way from "they have to ask permission".
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,823
Post Likes
3,157
No they don't, stop making stuff up.
My post (48) says when it's happened to me the players (unprompted) have asked if its ok.
That is a very long way from "they have to ask permission".
but, Phil, I didn't say "they have to ask permission", don't make things up ! (and in quotes as well!) I said "permmision may be necessary"

I am trying to work out what do people consider is necessary for a line out throw..
2 + 2 in line
everyone else back 10m?
defending hooker in channel?
ref must be ready?

ctrainor reckons it IS necessary to ask the ref
you said that the few times you have ever allowed one, it has been after they checked
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,148
Post Likes
1,839
wheras the reality is players maybe wont check, especially oif you are 20m away, theyll just do it - and the worst case scenario is you then stop play and make them rethrow with a standard lineout
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,136
Post Likes
2,408
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
but, Phil, I didn't say "they have to ask permission", don't make things up ! (and in quotes as well!) I said "permmision may be necessary"

I am trying to work out what do people consider is necessary for a line out throw..
2 + 2 in line
everyone else back 10m?
defending hooker in channel?
ref must be ready?

ctrainor reckons it IS necessary to ask the ref
you said that the few times you have ever allowed one, it has been after they checked

You said that my post #48 suggests that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout.

It suggested no such thing, so don't attribute it to me thank you.
 

Rich_NL

Rugby Expert
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,623
Post Likes
501
ctrainor reckons it IS necessary to ask the ref
you said that the few times you have ever allowed one, it has been after they checked

I think he said that it's necessary to ask him if he's reffing. I don't extrapolate that as a blanket statement for rugby.

I also don't think that blowing the whistle to signal QTI -> lineout is complicated by how quickly the lineout is taken.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,823
Post Likes
3,157
so, do we have any consensus -- what MUST be in place to allow a lineout to be taken quickly

1 - two from each team on line of touch
2 - everyone else from the throwing team (apart from receiver if there is one) 10m back
3 - everyone else from the defending team (apart from receiver if there is one) 10m back
4 - defending player in the tramlines
5 - referee has blown whistle to signify touch
6 - referee given a heads up that the throw is happening
7 - referee permission sought

Which of those do MUST be in place when a lineout is taken ? All of them? Some of them? Any of them
 

chbg


Referees in England
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
1,490
Solutions
1
Post Likes
450
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
MUST? For me:
1 - Min of two from each team;
2 - 10m back or retiring
5 - I will have blown when the ball has gone out of play anyway.
6 - I have a clear sight of the thrower and along the line of touch.
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
725
Post Likes
208
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
An aside - how many referee's use LO time to have a chat on the jog/run with captains? If I am, I'm concentrating on getting my message across to the captain and not really on what is happening with retrieval of the ball etc. Unless the ball is already at the LoT I'll use my 10-15 seconds of downtime to manage developing issues within the match without making it a double tapped whistle and a formal stoppage.

Also - can a quickly taken throw occur without marking the Line of Touch?
 

Mipper


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Messages
193
Post Likes
84
Current Referee grade:
Level 10
An aside - how many referee's use LO time to have a chat on the jog/run with captains? If I am, I'm concentrating on getting my message across to the captain and not really on what is happening with retrieval of the ball etc. Unless the ball is already at the LoT I'll use my 10-15 seconds of downtime to manage developing issues within the match without making it a double tapped whistle and a formal stoppage.

Also - can a quickly taken throw occur without marking the Line of Touch?
A quick throw in, yes it can be taken without marking the line of touch, a quickly taken line out, no.
 

Mipper


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Messages
193
Post Likes
84
Current Referee grade:
Level 10
It occurs to me, with my cynical coaches hat on, that there is an opportunity in a game to milk a penalty using the quickly taken lineout.

if the attacking team takes a lineout as soon as the defending team has two players meandering into start forming the line, it wouldn’t be particularly difficult to bait the remaining, defending forwards into tackling whilst they are offside (ie not at the lineout yet, but also not 10m back).

I wouldn’t encourage this of course (as a ref), but if I were still a coach….
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
725
Post Likes
208
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
It occurs to me, with my cynical coaches hat on, that there is an opportunity in a game to milk a penalty using the quickly taken lineout.

if the attacking team takes a lineout as soon as the defending team has two players meandering into start forming the line, it wouldn’t be particularly difficult to bait the remaining, defending forwards into tackling whilst they are offside (ie not at the lineout yet, but also not 10m back).

I wouldn’t encourage this of course (as a ref), but if I were still a coach….
Wouldn't be getting a PK from me - that sort of behaviour is (IMO) unsportsman-like, especially in the weeds where the game is truly amateur and played for the love of your mates and the players have a looser understanding of the technicalities of the law set.
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,148
Post Likes
1,839
Wouldn't be getting a PK from me - that sort of behaviour is (IMO) unsportsman-like, especially in the weeds where the game is truly amateur and played for the love of your mates and the players have a looser understanding of the technicalities of the law set.
yup. Its in the same bracket as throwing quickly before numbers vre equalled, and then the ref giving a FK for numbers.

Its a mangement issue. So manage it. Its only an issue if as a ref, one buys into the alleged deliberate subterfuge. Nobody would be that daft.
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
725
Post Likes
208
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
What do you mean by " marking"?
Making a mark for the Hooker to take the throw in from, then if you feel generous a second one on the 5 cause forwards can't seem to extrapolate perpendicular lines
 

chbg


Referees in England
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
1,490
Solutions
1
Post Likes
450
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
Making a mark for the Hooker to take the throw in from, then if you feel generous a second one on the 5 cause forwards can't seem to extrapolate perpendicular lines
I sense that it is usual, at least in RFU-land, for the primary mark to be on the 5 for the non-throwing team. At Under 15 I will mark both lines on the 5. I only give a mark for the thrower with my stationary front foot (not a mark on the ground) when I am an AR.
 
Top