They have to wait for us sir?

[Rich_NL]

You don't have to check with the ref, but it does seem prudent.

 

[didds]

"OI REF! REFF! YES, REF!! I WANT TO TAKE A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH... PARDON? NO... I WANT TO THROW IN... NO, ME THROWING IN, DIFFERENT BAL.. NO, NOT A QTI, A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH THE OPPO UNAWARES. YES, NOW. IS THAT OK? PARDON? AH. THANKS REF."

oh. all the oppo have now raced in from everywhere. No point now.

 

[crossref]

"OI REF! REFF! YES, REF!! I WANT TO TAKE A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH... PARDON? NO... I WANT TO THROW IN... NO, ME THROWING IN, DIFFERENT BAL.. NO, NOT A QTI, A QUICK THROW-IN TO CATCH THE OPPO UNAWARES. YES, NOW. IS THAT OK? PARDON? AH. THANKS REF."

oh. all the oppo have now raced in from everywhere. No point now.

posts #48 #49 #50 suggest that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout

does it complicate things if the ref (as often happens) bows whistle to indicate QTI no longer an option, ball is dead can't be thrown in --- but also at the same time meaning it now CAN be thrown in

 

[didds]

posts #48 #49 #50 suggest that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout

does it complicate things if the ref (as often happens) bows whistle to indicate QTI no longer an option, ball is dead can't be thrown in --- but also at the same time meaning it now CAN be thrown in

and runs away to the zip position, 20+m away making any such check somewhat reduynadnt? hnece my silly post :-0

IN reality I suspect (as Scotland had apparently done) teams would advise the ref they may look to do this so at leats the ref is pre warned

 

[Phil E]

posts #48 #49 #50 suggest that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout

No they don't, stop making stuff up.
My post (48) says when it's happened to me the players (unprompted) have asked if its ok.
That is a very long way from "they have to ask permission".

 

[crossref]

No they don't, stop making stuff up.
My post (48) says when it's happened to me the players (unprompted) have asked if its ok.
That is a very long way from "they have to ask permission".

but, Phil, I didn't say "they have to ask permission", don't make things up ! (and in quotes as well!) I said "permmision may be necessary"

I am trying to work out what do people consider is necessary for a line out throw..
2 + 2 in line
everyone else back 10m?
defending hooker in channel?
ref must be ready?

ctrainor reckons it IS necessary to ask the ref
you said that the few times you have ever allowed one, it has been after they checked

 

[didds]

wheras the reality is players maybe wont check, especially oif you are 20m away, theyll just do it - and the worst case scenario is you then stop play and make them rethrow with a standard lineout

 

[Phil E]

but, Phil, I didn't say "they have to ask permission", don't make things up ! (and in quotes as well!) I said "permmision may be necessary"

I am trying to work out what do people consider is necessary for a line out throw..
2 + 2 in line
everyone else back 10m?
defending hooker in channel?
ref must be ready?

ctrainor reckons it IS necessary to ask the ref
you said that the few times you have ever allowed one, it has been after they checked

You said that my post #48 suggests that permission may be necessary for a quick lineout.

It suggested no such thing, so don't attribute it to me thank you.

 

[Rich_NL]

ctrainor reckons it IS necessary to ask the ref
you said that the few times you have ever allowed one, it has been after they checked

I think he said that it's necessary to ask him if he's reffing. I don't extrapolate that as a blanket statement for rugby.

I also don't think that blowing the whistle to signal QTI -> lineout is complicated by how quickly the lineout is taken.

 

[crossref]

so, do we have any consensus -- what MUST be in place to allow a lineout to be taken quickly

1 - two from each team on line of touch
2 - everyone else from the throwing team (apart from receiver if there is one) 10m back
3 - everyone else from the defending team (apart from receiver if there is one) 10m back
4 - defending player in the tramlines
5 - referee has blown whistle to signify touch
6 - referee given a heads up that the throw is happening
7 - referee permission sought

Which of those do MUST be in place when a lineout is taken ? All of them? Some of them? Any of them

 

[chbg]

MUST? For me:
1 - Min of two from each team;
2 - 10m back or retiring
5 - I will have blown when the ball has gone out of play anyway.
6 - I have a clear sight of the thrower and along the line of touch.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

An aside - how many referee's use LO time to have a chat on the jog/run with captains? If I am, I'm concentrating on getting my message across to the captain and not really on what is happening with retrieval of the ball etc. Unless the ball is already at the LoT I'll use my 10-15 seconds of downtime to manage developing issues within the match without making it a double tapped whistle and a formal stoppage.

Also - can a quickly taken throw occur without marking the Line of Touch?

 

[Mipper]

An aside - how many referee's use LO time to have a chat on the jog/run with captains? If I am, I'm concentrating on getting my message across to the captain and not really on what is happening with retrieval of the ball etc. Unless the ball is already at the LoT I'll use my 10-15 seconds of downtime to manage developing issues within the match without making it a double tapped whistle and a formal stoppage.

Also - can a quickly taken throw occur without marking the Line of Touch?

A quick throw in, yes it can be taken without marking the line of touch, a quickly taken line out, no.

 

[Mipper]

It occurs to me, with my cynical coaches hat on, that there is an opportunity in a game to milk a penalty using the quickly taken lineout.

if the attacking team takes a lineout as soon as the defending team has two players meandering into start forming the line, it wouldn’t be particularly difficult to bait the remaining, defending forwards into tackling whilst they are offside (ie not at the lineout yet, but also not 10m back).

I wouldn’t encourage this of course (as a ref), but if I were still a coach….

 

[crossref]

A quick throw in, yes it can be taken without marking the line of touch, a quickly taken line out, no.

in grass roots rugby, where there is no AR, this would mean no lineout until I have geiven the defending team the mark

 

[Jarrod Burton]

It occurs to me, with my cynical coaches hat on, that there is an opportunity in a game to milk a penalty using the quickly taken lineout.

if the attacking team takes a lineout as soon as the defending team has two players meandering into start forming the line, it wouldn’t be particularly difficult to bait the remaining, defending forwards into tackling whilst they are offside (ie not at the lineout yet, but also not 10m back).

I wouldn’t encourage this of course (as a ref), but if I were still a coach….

Wouldn't be getting a PK from me - that sort of behaviour is (IMO) unsportsman-like, especially in the weeds where the game is truly amateur and played for the love of your mates and the players have a looser understanding of the technicalities of the law set.

 

[didds]

Wouldn't be getting a PK from me - that sort of behaviour is (IMO) unsportsman-like, especially in the weeds where the game is truly amateur and played for the love of your mates and the players have a looser understanding of the technicalities of the law set.

yup. Its in the same bracket as throwing quickly before numbers vre equalled, and then the ref giving a FK for numbers.

Its a mangement issue. So manage it. Its only an issue if as a ref, one buys into the alleged deliberate subterfuge. Nobody would be that daft.

 

[Decorily]

Also - can a quickly taken throw occur without marking the Line of Touch?

What do you mean by " marking"?

 

[Jarrod Burton]

What do you mean by " marking"?

Making a mark for the Hooker to take the throw in from, then if you feel generous a second one on the 5 cause forwards can't seem to extrapolate perpendicular lines

 

[chbg]

Making a mark for the Hooker to take the throw in from, then if you feel generous a second one on the 5 cause forwards can't seem to extrapolate perpendicular lines

I sense that it is usual, at least in RFU-land, for the primary mark to be on the 5 for the non-throwing team. At Under 15 I will mark both lines on the 5. I only give a mark for the thrower with my stationary front foot (not a mark on the ground) when I am an AR.