Thoughts on ELV 13: The corner posts

[Dickie E]

I think not. The corner post should be rgarded the same as the goal post in this regard. If the ball nestles at the base of either then it is play on. If, having nestled, it is then grounded by a player then TIG or touch down respectively.

 

[OB..]

If putting downward pressure on the ball while it is nestling against the post means the ball is then TIG, it follows that the ball was TIG before it was grounded.

Not necessarily. I agree with [Dixie, whoops, correction: Dickie E!!] that a player could pick the ball up without grounding it, just as in in-goal

However I think we are straining at a gnat. There is very little likelihood of having the ball stop dead resting against the post and not touching any lines.

What is clear is that if a player grounds the ball against the post, you do not have to worry about lines; it is TIG.

 

[Dixie]

I think not. The corner post should be rgarded the same as the goal post in this regard. If the ball nestles at the base of either then it is play on. If, having nestled, it is then grounded by a player then TIG or touch down respectively.

Dickie, the reason a grounding against the post is a try is because the post is on the line, and on the line is in-goal. So the ball touching the post is in-goal. That same reasoning seems to me to apply to the corner post. It is considered the plane of TIG, which is irrelevant anywhere except at the base.

 

[OB..]

Dickie, the reason a grounding against the post is a try is because the post is on the line, and on the line is in-goal. So the ball touching the post is in-goal.

No it isn't. It can be picked up without being grounded, which a defender might prefer to do under some circumstances. It is just like a ball lying in in-goal: it is not dead. That is why you have to touch it down, either to save, or to score a try.

 

[chopper15]

Off to see table-toppers Redruth and Blaydon this pm, so would like to brief my fellow learned terrace refs on the latest developments regarding ELVs!

A ball lying against the base of the goal posts or the corner flag is still in play, to be picked up or 'grounded' (obvious down press. applied . . . TMO was wrong Leinster v Ospreys last night?) for try/save or touch-in-goal?

 

[Rawling]

A ball lying against the base of the goal posts or the corner flag is still in play, to be picked up or 'grounded' (obvious down press. applied . . . TMO was wrong Leinster v Ospreys last night?) for try/save or touch-in-goal?

Sound right to me... what did the LvO TMO do?

 

[SimonSmith]

For those who can't see the game, can you describe said incident?

I get hee-haw coverage over here.

 

[Dixie]

Dickie, the reason a grounding against the post is a try is because the post is on the line, and on the line is in-goal. So the ball touching the post is in-goal.

No it isn't. It can be picked up without being grounded, which a defender might prefer to do under some circumstances. It is just like a ball lying in in-goal: it is not dead. That is why you have to touch it down, either to save, or to score a try.

Sorry OB - I'm struggling to see where the reasoning for your objection to my post actually differs from my post. Everything you say appears to me to perfectly consonant with my original. One of us is missing something, and I hesitate to suggest it might be you - but I've looked really hard (gulp):sad:

 

[Dickie E]

Dixie, you're right - a ball resting against goal post is in goal. My analogy/comparison was more about the need for a player to do something with it - if he doesn't, then play on.

Again, it is similar (but not identical) to the soccer corner post rule. If the ball comes to a stop resting at its base then it just sits there until a player does something with it.

 

[Dixie]

So my analogy is, of a ball resting a gainst a goal post is on the line and thus play on, a ball resting against the corner flag is on the line and thus TIG. This seems to me to be the only interpretation that is consistent with the idea that merely putting downward pressure on it, without moving it at all, automatically puts it into TIG.

The truth is, it was there already. The law about grounding against the post is for clarification when the ball was not already resting there - i.e. when someone grounds it there from hand.

 

[Dickie E]

what you're suggesting then is the somewhat ridiculous situation where a ball that bounces against the corner post and comes to rest 1" from the post is in play but if it comes to rest against the corner post it is in TIG.

 

[Rawling]

The ELV specifically states the flagpost is not touch-in-goal. To say the ball touching the flagpost is in touch-in-goal goes against this.

 

[chopper15]

Ref.IRB; The corner posts are no longer considered to be in touch-in-goal except when the ball is grounded against the post.

Ref. Chopper; ie. hand contact?

Ref. Dixie; ‘. . . a ball resting against the corner flag is on the line and thus TIG’

Doesn't appear to support your argument, Dixie, . . . but I like your spirit!

 

[chopper15]

Sound right to me... what did the LvO TMO do?

(obvious down press. applied . . . TMO was wrong Leinster v Ospreys last night?)

Sorry R and Simon, I side-tracked!

'Twas 'bout losing contact and a bit too subtle to describe. In my opinion he lost contact fwd ( no knock fwd until it touches the ground?) then grounded it, simultaneously with in-goal ball contact.

If my observation was correct, a try?

 

[OB..]

In my opinion he lost contact fwd ( no knock fwd until it touches the ground?) then grounded it, simultaneously with in-goal ball contact.

If my observation was correct, a try?

Grounding for the knock-on takes precedence over grounding for a try.

 

[Dixie]

what you're suggesting then is the somewhat ridiculous situation where a ball that bounces against the corner post and comes to rest 1" from the post is in play but if it comes to rest against the corner post it is in TIG.

Why is this more ridiculous than, for example, kicking the ball and if it comes to rest 1" from the touchline it's in play, but if it comes to rest touching the line it is not?

 

[OB..]

If the ball hits the post and comes back into play, it is "play on". That makes sense because the point is that it does not matter if a player hits it. Saying it is the same if the ball happens to hit the ground at the same time avoids having to make a very difficult distinction.

The ball cannot hit the plane of touch and bounce back in, so the same problem does not arise.

 

[Dickie E]

Grounding for the knock-on takes precedence over grounding for a try.

Why? I'd have thought that benefit of doubt goes to attacker.

 

[Rawling]

Why? I'd have thought that benefit of doubt goes to attacker.

I would imagine that if you only ground the ball with downward pressure (i.e. not holding it), you've not regained control.

 

[PaulDG]

I would imagine that if you only ground the ball with downward pressure (i.e. not holding it), you've not regained control.

There's no requirement for "control" in scoring. That's Rugby League.