Throw in taken incorrectly

[Iron_Lung]

To begin this thread let us open our hymnals to Law 19.7 - Incorrect Throw In, and address clause (b):

(b) The throw-in at the lineout must be taken without delay and without pretending to throw.

The question then becomes what defines "pretending to throw". I had a situation last game where the hooker would stand relaxed with the ball up, then when the calls were made, he would move his weight to his front foot and then throw the ball in. A couple of times the defending team jumped as he moved onto his front foot, causing them to jump early.

So does any movement qualify as "pretending to throw" under the law, or does only an act that could be construed as throwing (but isn't) be considered? In this case I was comfortable that his throwing pattern was consistent and he was simply preparing to throw rather than trying to cause the defending team to jump early.

As a side note for the pedants, why is it that players yell "balking" when it isn't included or defined by the laws??

 

[Dickie E]

IL, I'd go with your call.

 

[FlipFlop]

first time I would stop it, and then manage it. If he is consistent with his motion, then will tell the jumpers to ensure they delay a little. And I'll warn the hooker to be consistent or I'll ping him.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

As a side note for the pedants, why is it that players yell "balking" when it isn't included or defined by the laws??

What do you mean by this?

 

[FlipFlop]

I think the comment is aimed at asking why players yell balking - perhaps trying to connect to baseball where the phrase is common.

The answer as to why players call it, is simplly that "to Balk" is to not carry through with something. It is the correct word, and even the correct usage.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Oh! I see. I think.

 

[Dixie]

Iron Lung, I'd agree that the thrower's consistent throwing action would not normally be construed as "pretending to throw", with the caveat that if the action was to move forward as if to throw, and then move back, the thrower should be told not to do that, adn pinged if he persists. It's effectively a dummy throw.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Never heard the phrase Balking in my life in relation to a rugby phrase
The only possible reference is to the act of throwing up but nothing comes out like when you smell when somebody has been sick!!

 

[Robert Burns]

It's used all the time in the SH.

With regards to the action, providing his hands have not moved forward I am happy it's not pretending.

If his arms move forward and stop, and the ball isn't released, that's a Free Kick.

 

[Iron_Lung]

I was largely joking with my comment about balking, mainly because i happened to be thinking about it when I first typed this question "how do you define a balk" when I realized that it isn't actually in the law book.

The throw itself is hard to describe but I think we're all in agreement. The thrower didn't move the ball or his hands, he simply moved from a relaxed stance to one where most of his weight was on his front foot and he was standing tall. There was a slight pauserior to the throw, but it was consistent.

The first time I managed the jumpers and paid attention to his throw, once I was comfortable that he was consistent I fk'd the defenders twice before the problems stopped. Overall I was curious about interpretation of pretending to throw, but the arm or ball movement seems to be most people's trigger. Also seems like the most consistent way to judge it.

Thanks all,

 

[ddjamo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balk

 

[stuart3826]

I think the comment is aimed at asking why players yell balking - perhaps trying to connect to baseball where the phrase is common.

The answer as to why players call it, is simplly that "to Balk" is to not carry through with something. It is the correct word, and even the correct usage.

but not the correct spelling:nono:from Oxford English dictionary

baulk
verb
hesitate or be unwilling to accept an idea or undertaking:
he baulked at such a drastic solution
[with object] thwart or hinder (a plan or person):
he raised every objection he could to baulk this plan
(baulk someone of) prevent a person or animal from having (something):
a tiger baulked of its prey
archaic miss or refuse (a chance or invitation).
(with reference to a horse) refuse or cause to refuse to go on.

 

[OB..]

but not the correct spelling:nono:from Oxford English dictionary

My copy of the OED has the head word "balk, baulk". Chambers and Collins also accept both spellings. Fowler comments that "balk" tends to dominate in the US and "baulk" in Britain.

 

[FlipFlop]

but not the correct spelling:nono:View attachment 1673from Oxford English dictionary

I refer the "honourable member" to my learned colleague OB.

 

[stuart3826]

My copy of the OED has the head word "balk, baulk". Chambers and Collins also accept both spellings. Fowler comments that "balk" tends to dominate in the US and "baulk" in Britain.

You have a copy of the OED? My word! May I suggest a trip to the antiques roadshow? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Phil E]

Fowler comments that "balk" tends to dominate in the US and "baulk" in Britain.

Clearly Flip Flops American wife is having an undue influence on his grammar :nono:

 

[crossref]

The answer as to why players call it, is simplly that "to Balk" is to not carry through with something. It is the correct word, and even the correct usage.

:chin: I don't think it necessarily IS quite the right usage . Baulking at somethnig is shying away, being unable to carry though .. it's running up to a jump and then at the last minute stopping, it's getting to the edge of the diving board and finding you can't quite jump off...

Now sometimes a hooker might baulk -- eg a strong headwind and the SH calls a throw to the back of the LO, the hooker is a bit unsettled as he knows its too far, goes to throw anyway, and sees that the far pod aren't even ready as they didn't hear the call... and baulks.

But that's not the same as pretending to throw, dummying.

(although it's not really important - baulking and dummying are both FK of course)

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Well i'm not going to call anyone far balking the trow on but good ald dummying, free kick!!

 

[coonor]

here is an example of the word balking being used. I have heard it quite a few times especially in the southern hemisphere.

http://www.scrrs.net/video-clips/video-example-line-out-balking/

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

First time I've actually heard that thanks but love the commentator,
"if anyone wants to know what that is it is dummying the throw"
Next we will see the word get replace the word have:knuppel2: bloody yanks butchering our language