tickets please

Browner

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Oh dear goldenballs2 has errored, http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/26368211.

When it happened in our club our allocation was cut , wonder if his families allocation will be!

You've got to chuckle at the irish guy who willingly would pay £440 and presumably welcomes the availability of tickets this way? But then he sees Farrell's name on it & reports it .... I wonder if he did that before or after watching the match?

& did the result change his desire to shop GB2 ?.....lol
 

crossref


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I think the RFU identified it on viagogo.

AN RFU insider tells me that the latest trick is
- they monitor all websites and look to see if they can identify the seat numbers of the tickets for sale (from the advert or they will contact the seller and ask them)
- they then issue a new ticket for that seat
- the new ticket is given to a volunteer who gets to see the game for free
- the hapless original ticket buyer of course also arrives at the game --- and finds someone else with a ticket for 'his' seat.
- conflict arises, the stewards are called, the stewards eject the buyer.
 

Browner

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This is only possible if seat /seller is identified. But it means less sales via 'ticket sites' and more outside ground trading, surely?
 

crossref


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This is only possible if seat /seller is identified. But it means less sales via 'ticket sites' and more outside ground trading, surely?
some people put the seat numbers on viagogo (eg a photo of the ticket)
for others the RFU contact the seller - pretending to be an interested buyer - and ask where the seat is.

yes. the RFU are focusing on web sales.
they are trying to get police/local authorities to work on the on-street sellers
 

Browner

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Whilst they are at it, have a word with the catering thief who charged me £7.50 for a beef bap !!!!!!
Mind you something had to soak up the alcohol .....
 

Browner

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I think the RFU identified it on viagogo.

AN RFU insider tells me that the latest trick is
- they monitor all websites and look to see if they can identify the seat numbers of the tickets for sale (from the advert or they will contact the seller and ask them)
- they then issue a new ticket for that seat
- the new ticket is given to a volunteer who gets to see the game for free
- the hapless original ticket buyer of course also arrives at the game --- and finds someone else with a ticket for 'his' seat.
- conflict arises, the stewards are called, the stewards eject the buyer.

I might go do some destructive sabotage of this RFU plan, I'll advertise my ticket but hide the seat detail, when I get a call I'll give out the seat number of one of the best seats in the house, say west stand middle tier , entrance m5 ........ Then take a video camera to film the stewards eject sir henry bletherington-smythe as he find out a volunteer (with a re-issued ticket ) occupys his seat.

His vociferous protest that he got his seat direct from being fran cottons commercial contracts negotiator simply wont wash with them stewards !
:)
 

crossref


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I might go do some destructive sabotage of this RFU plan, I'll advertise my ticket but hide the seat detail, when I get a call I'll give out the seat number of one of the best seats in the house, say west stand middle tier , entrance m5 ........ Then take a video camera to film the stewards eject sir henry bletherington-smythe as he find out a volunteer (with a re-issued ticket ) occupys his seat.

His vociferous protest that he got his seat direct from being fran cottons commercial contracts negotiator simply wont wash with them stewards !
:)

yes - apparently this happens as well. But not often (yet). It is pretty easy for the stewards to tell the difference between a genuine ticket holder and someone who has bought it on spec.

and this is why they need volunteers to sit in the seats, and can't just resell then. the volunteer knows there may well be conflict and is ready to handle it calmly and with a smile : it's possible the seat could be occupied by rightful owner.

it's not a foolproof plan: just one weapon amongst many that the RFU use...
 

crossref


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as an aside : I once went to Twickenham, game was England v Australia , and found someone sitting in my seat.
With a valid ticket!
So we called the stewards over.
the stewards inspected our two tickets -- and his ticket was for England v Argentina which had been the previous week.

He had bought it from a tout and hadn't noticed
neither did I notice when I first saw it, hence the stewards. and it took them a minute or so to see it.

funny how you see what you expect to see.
 

Simon Thomas


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and having just seen the RFU PR page that absolves Mr Farrell of any blame, I am rather annoyed that yet again we see the RFU's double standards.

Four seasons ago I was happily skiing in France, when I received an RFU Legal Department email to me as Chairman of Hampshire Society demanding an immediate explanation as to why one of our allocated tickets was for sale on E-bay (with a photo of the ticket) for a Twickenham match the next weekend.

I replied I would deal with it on my return to UK, which was not good enough apparently, so had to do the detective work and liaise with our International Tickets Secretary etc there and then. We did find out who it was, questioned him on the phone, warned him, and that seat was empty at the match (we asked the Society member with the next door seat to report back) - so if it was sold on it was not used. All of this was reported to RFU.

We issue regular Society meeting warnings about RFU rules on our allocated tickets, as well as a detailed note with every ticket given to members. We advise all members to retain their stubs post match as proof of atendance too. The offender member was suspended immediately and at the season end his membership was not renewed.

A few weeks later we had a unilateral decision by RFU of a three season suspension of half our Twickenham tickets allocation, and a blunt warning letter in legal speak. No appeal, no thank you for dealing with it so quickly, etc.
 

L'irlandais

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How's your french ? I'm surprised this scoop didn't make it across the Channel - Affaire des billets de la FFR The big problem in France since 2007 hasn't been touts, but the bloody french "mafia"! Clubs here have not received their due ticket allocations since the 2007 World Cup ; as some Blazer at the Union HQ sold them on to a mate of his, to allow this criminal launder "mafia" money.

No wonder we never got any ticket allocations at the club all the time I was volunteering there. Alledgedly "Passion Events" (a front outfit) were selling ticket/flight/hotel packages at exorbitant prices, only for the buyer to find the package deal wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Often no refunds, sometimes even no tickets for those who forked out. Funnily enough they were only finally found out when the France - Ireland game was postponed just before kick-off. The boys from Marseille were unable to cover their tracks at such short notice. Source : l'équipe (in French too)

It's an ill Wind (or frost) 'n all that... (5 individuals are going to prision over this affair of €600k to €800k of tickets + what punters paid out for flights and hôtels at trumped up prices.)
 
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Dixie


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as an aside : I once went to Twickenham, game was England v Australia , and found someone sitting in my seat.
With a valid ticket!
So we called the stewards over.
the stewards inspected our two tickets -- and his ticket was for England v Argentina which had been the previous week.
With a proper validation policy at the gate, he'd never have got in. Tickets are barcoded; a barcode scanner linked to a turnstile would resolve the problem. Hardly impossible for a venue that deals with 80,000 tackets costing on average £60 (£4.8mm per game).
 

Simon Thomas


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At my last visit to HQ for the Quins v Exeter match I was allowed to walk straight through the turnstile at West Car Park with my folded ticket barely visible in my hand. I did have my RFU Assessors jacket on, but lots of folks have got an item of clothing with the RFU staff/volunteer logo on it.

My ticket was carefully inspected at the lift in the North Stand - but no bar code reader, which is an excellent idea Dixie. With e-tickets like airplane boarding cards, the RFU could save a fortune in printing and postage costs to part fund the bar-code readers installation.
 

irishref


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as a much further aside... you won't get into a gig in any of the famous/decent sized club venues in NL (Vredenburg, Tivoli, Paradiso, Melkweg etc) or any of the larger venues (Ziggo Dome, Heineken Music hall etc) without bardcoded tickets. Door security have hand-held scanners and basically you print out your own barcode, no need for expensive, embossed tickets.

Even RyanAir will read a new-style barcode on your mobile phone and accept it as a boarding pass these days...
 

Phil E


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This is one area where the RFU are way behind the rest of the sporting industry.

Access control is standard across the Football Premier League and the vast majority of Championship clubs. Horseracing uses it, cricket uses it, silverstone has it as well.

It's expensive to install, but the savings can be huge on combatting fraud. I installed the first ever Access Control system in the Premier League.
Season ticket holders have an RFID card (like a credit card) and casual visitors have a barcoded ticket, although you can also get RFID paper tickets (Man City use these).
The problem with the system the RFU has now is that they can't reprint or reissue tickets, because there is no way of stopping the old one from being used, and thus having more than one person in the ground for the same seat.
With access control if a ticket is reported stolen or lost, you reissue it, which automatically cancells the old ticket. Turnstiles use a simpole traffic light system to indicate whether a ticket is valid or not and stewards with handheld PDA devices can interrogate tickets or cards to resolve issues. The turnstile lights also indicate if the ticket is an adult or concession, so its very easy to scan the lights and catch adults coming in on junior tickets.
You save a huge amount on fraud and it also allows you to cut down on turnstile staff since one person can manage 4 or 5 turnsiles.
It also allows the use of print at home tickets, and gives you stats on who came in, when and where. This can be linked to things like facebook, so that your status on facebeook is updated when you buy a ticket, and again when you enter the stadium. Our concourse catering tills can also be used with the system, giving discounts based on when you enter the ground (to encourage people to enter earlier). An SMS system can be used to tell people about these offers in real time.
Using this system we have discovered that around 1,000 season ticket holders fail to turn up every game, we can then market them, or encourage them to use a ticket exchange program to help us fill the stadium.

Its totally unbelievable that a stadium like Twickenham doesn't have access control in place.

There was an incident a few years ago when the Millennium Stadium in Wales was being used for the FA Cup where a whole bunch of around 300 or 400 tickets went missing in the post. Because they didn't have access control then, all they could do was leave all those seats empty and not allow anyone to use them. With access control they could have reissued all the tickets meaning the old ones were useless to whoever stole them. As it was 300 to 400 fans never got to see the game because they never received their tickets.
 

B52 REF


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Simon - hope you hamps guys have got a little bit more connected with the ticket dept. since then - they don't bite -well patriciamurphy doesn't anyway :)
 

Browner

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With a proper validation policy at the gate, he'd never have got in. Tickets are barcoded; a barcode scanner linked to a turnstile would resolve the problem. Hardly impossible for a venue that deals with 80,000 tackets costing on average £60 (£4.8mm per game).

I bet the average is over £80 , our tickets had a scan that was linked to a polite chap with a beaming smile at the gate.
 

Phil E


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I bet the average is over £80 , our tickets had a scan that was linked to a polite chap with a beaming smile at the gate.

The problem with a hand scanner rather than a turnstile is that there's a human being involved. If he doesn't like confrontation he will just wave in failed tickets instead of challenging them, or investigating them. Reduce the scanners to supervisors who have been extensively trained and let them just deal with the failed tickets at the turnstile. The turnstile itself can deal with the valid tickets and remove the human being, therefore speeding things up to one entry every four seconds.
 

Browner

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and having just seen the RFU PR page that absolves Mr Farrell of any blame, I am rather annoyed that yet again we see the RFU's double standards.

But the RFU ARE consistent, they'll always take a soft line with any player who's dad is on the coaching staff, and a hard line with the public, and an extremely hard line with volunteer referees !

My club directors decided to keep secret the identity of the 'longstanding ' individual who has lost all the other members access to 8 tickets per game ....

Now a cynical person might think that the secretive suppressing of this information is to protect one of their mates ..... I couldn't possibly comment about that, but then, that's club politics for you!
 

Browner

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In the 2013 sanctions list in addition to clubs, the RFU listed

Gloucestershire RFU
East Midlands referee society
North Midlands RU

So on this refs forum, EMRS were the devil incarnate!

No doubt the 2014 list is being looked forward to ......... Any societies getting squeeky bum yet?
 

Simon Thomas


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Simon - hope you hamps guys have got a little bit more connected with the ticket dept. since then - they don't bite -well patriciamurphy doesn't anyway :)

Murph - never has been problem with Tickets and the lovely Patricia. When the potential resale happened it went straight to Legal and they are black & white about things it seems.
 
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