Time wasting

Decorily

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But he can do that. Blow the whistle, call time off and it doesn't matter what Foley does then. We're all very happy to support the mantra of "play to the whistle" except when we're not.
Are you seriously suggesting that a referee should stop the clock and let a player or whoever else dictate when play restarts?
 

Dickie E


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But if he blows time on again, it's still his fault when Foley doesn't follow his instructions and then gets penalised.

Is one lens green and the other gold, or are they mixed? ;)
what you say makes little sense. This is a conversion event. Blow time off, get TMO to have a look at the pass for forward, maker decision. If try stands, Foley then has his 90 seconds to complete the conversion.
 

Dickie E


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Are you seriously suggesting that a referee should stop the clock and let a player or whoever else dictate when play restarts?
its a standard procedure. One of the officials has doubts about the pass, referee blows time off, does the rectangle hand signal, etc
 

Phil E


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I agree that he should have blown time off to check with the TMO, but there is still no excuse for Foley's behaviour. There have been arguments that Raynal's decision to award NZ a scrum at the end was not in the spirit of the game, but what Foley did isn't either. He willfully disregarded a direct instruction from the referee to wait, and I know exactly why he did that. He knew that the last pass he gave to the try-scorer Kelloway was likely forward, and he wanted to get the conversion taken to stop the referee checking with the TMO.

This is another case where the Law is an ass. The goal kicker should not have the ability to limit the referee's actions. The referee should be allowed to consult the TMO (or the TMO should be able to call-in) any time after the try has been scored, and before the half-way restart.

In the Premiership now taking the kick makes no difference. The TMO can still intervene and the try (and conversion) can be chalked off even if the kick has been taken. Not sure if that applies elsewhere?
 

crossref


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Watching Quins yesterday I heard Tempo taking time off, and telling the time keeper "time back on when he kicks it"

Very sensible IMO
 

shebeen

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Watching Quins yesterday I heard Tempo taking time off, and telling the time keeper "time back on when he kicks it"

Very sensible IMO
works for me.

I guess anyone who thought this was cut and dried would now be surprised how the thread is still going 10 days later. It now appears 5 seconds is the right amount of time to take the kick from a mark.



Was quite a close Rugby Championships, but referees made all the headlines far too many times. and it's not just a NH/SH thing. Penalty count (17-22) in the SA Arg game ruined the contest.
 

Phil E


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Was quite a close Rugby Championships, but referees made all the headlines far too many times. and it's not just a NH/SH thing. Penalty count (17-22) in the SA Arg game ruined the contest.

How is the penalty count the referees fault?
He/She doesn't comit the penalty offences.
 

Dickie E


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How is the penalty count the referees fault?
He/She doesn't comit the penalty offences.
it is often used as a measure of the referee's ability to control a game. A high penalty count can show that the referee should have escalated with cards earlier. Note that this is a general comment and not direted necessarily at Damon Murphy
 

SimonSmith


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How is the penalty count the referees fault?
He/She doesn't comit the penalty offences.
"Damon, we've had enough bleating from SA about decisions not given. Blow the arse out of everything. See it, blow it. We'll have your back".

Maybe.
 

Mipper


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it is often used as a measure of the referee's ability to control a game. A high penalty count can show that the referee should have escalated with cards earlier. Note that this is a general comment and not direted necessarily at Damon Murphy
Yes, often it is, and sometimes the ref can be at fault for this.

However, it is also used by spectators to simply explain away why their team is not performing as expected.

We do appear to have got ourselves into a state whereby the referee is the default villain for anything that doesn’t go your teams way on the pitch. Of course, rugby being the way it is, with much of it being reliant on human interpretation mixed in with the subjective element of “materiality”, blaming/criticising the ref is always going to be an open goal for those with a need to explain away their teams performance.

it’s because of this, that I get so irritated by ex-players criticising the refs in the media. These people portray credibility, and as such legitimise the ongoing criticism, especially amongst those who are rabidly one-eyed, game-ignorant or South African.
 

Phil E


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it is often used as a measure of the referee's ability to control a game. A high penalty count can show that the referee should have escalated with cards earlier. Note that this is a general comment and not direted necessarily at Damon Murphy

Or it could just show that they wont listen. You can take a horse to water......
 

BikingBud


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Yes, often it is, and sometimes the ref can be at fault for this.

However, it is also used by spectators to simply explain away why their team is not performing as expected.

We do appear to have got ourselves into a state whereby the referee is the default villain for anything that doesn’t go your teams way on the pitch. Of course, rugby being the way it is, with much of it being reliant on human interpretation mixed in with the subjective element of “materiality”, blaming/criticising the ref is always going to be an open goal for those with a need to explain away their teams performance.

it’s because of this, that I get so irritated by ex-players criticising the refs in the media. These people portray credibility, and as such legitimise the ongoing criticism, especially amongst those who are rabidly one-eyed, game-ignorant or South African.
Especially when those "expert" ex players continually demonstrate such a low knowledge of the laws, an area that really should be fundamental to their role as pundits.🤬
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Especially when those "expert" ex players continually demonstrate such a low knowledge of the laws, an area that really should be fundamental to their role as pundits.🤬

Don't we know it.

The shit show in the studio in UK that followed Sam Warburton's RC in the RWC semi v France in 2011 (Francois Pienaar take note) was embarrassing. Then of course there was always the constant stream of BS from the likes of Stuart Barnes and Justin Marshall et al.
 

crossref


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Don't we know it.

The shit show in the studio in UK that followed Sam Warburton's RC in the RWC semi v France in 2011 (Francois Pienaar take note) was embarrassing. Then of course there was always the constant stream of BS from the likes of Stuart Barnes and Justin Marshall et al.
That wasn't ignorance of the Laws , it was ignorance of Guidance
Lots of the guidance given to referees goes unpublished. Rugby doesn't make it easy
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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That wasn't ignorance of the Laws , it was ignorance of Guidance
Lots of the guidance given to referees goes unpublished. Rugby doesn't make it easy
That's true of the SW case. The Stuart Barnes etc stuff holds/held true however. The names may change but the stupidity runs like a golden thread through most of them. Look at the so called panel of experts giving us the benefit of their huge brains after the MR and BF Bledisloe incident.
 

shebeen

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How is the penalty count the referees fault?
He/She doesn't comit the penalty offences.

Answered already by others. I think we all know that if every single Law infringement was blown there wouldn't be much game time. When you get a game with an outlier statistic like this one, it naturally raises queries, especially when one team is chasing a large points difference for the overall competition. It could be a very reckless performance by both teams, or an over-eager ref (or combination of both).

it’s because of this, that I get so irritated by ex-players criticising the refs in the media. These people portray credibility, and as such legitimise the ongoing criticism, especially amongst those who are rabidly one-eyed, game-ignorant or South African.
here you go, I'll put combine all of your gripes on a plate for you.
South African pundits (former coach and former player) complaining about a referee decision in the media.


on field decision was try. Good luck finding a C&O transfer where green4 doesn't have the ball (especially when looking at a stadium screen) to reverse it. Surprising the TMO with much better access to visuals agrees.
 

Donk93953

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How can World Rugby say the referee made an error when they wrote the law that says the ref is the sole judge?
You have forgotten the second sentence....." The referee must apply the laws of the game fairly in every match."
 

dickell

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I have just read this thread from start to finish. Some years ago Raynal refereed Wasps v Connacht and made a major error in law, not in interpretation but in law, when he allowed Connacht to take a line out (from which they scored to win) when the kick into touch should have ended the match.
He has never been top of my list of favourites since then, and his errors do not surprise.
 

crossref


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I have just read this thread from start to finish. Some years ago Raynal refereed Wasps v Connacht and made a major error in law, not in interpretation but in law, when he allowed Connacht to take a line out (from which they scored to win) when the kick into touch should have ended the match.
He has never been top of my list of favourites since then, and his errors do not surprise.
Was it from a FK ?
 
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