U18 Squeezeball

[AlanT]

I have always reffed this as I was told on my first course - no squeezeball allowed under any circumstances.

Now there is a view that it's OK provided that hte player doesn't get into the position that the law was triggered by, ie player with head towards opposition, lying face down and with weight on head.

So, do you apply zero tolerance, make a judgement call each time or allow it always?

Yesterday I pinged some and not others as guided but it caused some confusion and they said I was the first ref to ping it this season.

I was much happier when I used to apply zero tolerance.

 

[Rit Hinners]

As I understand it, it becomes illegal when the ball is not immediately available to play.

Don't worry about which way he's facing or where hiss weight is. If he's covering the ball, ping him.

 

[The umpire]

I have always reffed this as I was told on my first course - no squeezeball allowed under any circumstances.

Correct, for U18 and younger

Now there is a view that it's OK provided that hte player doesn't get into the position that the law was triggered by, ie player with head towards opposition, lying face down and with weight on head.

I guess if they're not adopting that position then it might not be "squeezeball", but does their position satisfy the thrust behind banning squeezeball, i.e. does it look dangerous? Then ping 'em.

So, do you apply zero tolerance, make a judgement call each time or allow it always?

Personally I go for zero tolerance. If it looks enough like squeezeball to make you think then it is, "If there's doubt, then there is no doubt" (from which film, for a bonus point?)

I was much happier when I used to apply zero tolerance.

Well, a happy ref is probably a better ref!

 

[Deeps]

As I understand it, it becomes illegal when the ball is not immediately available to play.

Don't worry about which way he's facing or where hiss weight is. If he's covering the ball, ping him.

That's true for senior rugby all over Rit, Law 14 e.g. making the ball unplayable. I once heard an eminent referee describe his take being that if the ball did not appear like 'greased weasel sh1t' then the act was illegal in his view.

In English RFU jurisdiction, it is proscribed as de facto illegal for U18 rugby as a matter of safety. By law, anyone U18 is by definition a child and we have abundant child protection legislation to prove it.

 

[Dickie E]

In juniors I treat it the way I treat a collapsed scrum. As soon as a child goes into that position blow it up immediately. If you then want to manage it - chat to skipper, restart with scrum, whatever - I'd be OK with that.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Standing orders to Hampshire Refs is zero tolerance and illegal for all age groups U18 and below, as per RFU instructions .

Plus it is in Schools Regs section too.

and here

At Colts U18 level, I expect a straight PK, but at younger levels perhaps a warning and scrum is appropriate for first offences.

At U19 (where it is legal) and adult levels I apply the 'greased weasel sh1t' definition, and that is how we have implemented it in our Society at Training Meetings.

 

[Casey Bee]

In my short reffing career I have seen this done once at U15. From prior advice, as this is a SAFETY issue, it is important to whistle quickly to prevent possible nasty outcome. I think me barking 'Squeezeball, strictly forbidden' also got the message across!

[as an aside, same game I had my only 'cavalry charge' so far in my career... again an early loud blow... 30 stunned faces but it stopped everyone in their tracks and prevented major collisions]

 

[Simon Thomas]

Well done on both counts Kevin.

Safety, safety, safety.

 

[TigerCraig]

. I think me barking 'Squeezeball, strictly forbidden' also got the message across!

If we said that here our assessor would kill us. if howver we said "dangerous play" or "too slow to release" we would get away with it.

 

[Casey Bee]

If we said that here our assessor would kill us. if howver we said "dangerous play" or "too slow to release" we would get away with it.

Why? It was U15, it's not allowed for safety reasons... it needs stopping immediately. Stating 'dangerous play' is not telling them the issue was 'squeezeball' and 'too slow to release' would imply they were allowed to do it, if they did it faster. I'm not too sure why you need to use those particular words to 'get away with it'?

 

[crossref]

I have to say i have hardly ever seen it, but on the few occasions I have, I've blown, and taken a little time to explain, otherwise
- a sudden PK for dangerous play can leave most of them on the pitch bewildered, wondering what on earth I saw dangereous in that tackle that they didn't ? Bewilderment generally isn't good for ref credibility
- education.. on the occasions i have penalised it the perpetrator of the squeezeball has been perplexed and surprised. They weren't doing it as a trained technique, it just seemed the right thing to do in spur of moment, they found themselves half tackled to their knees, and cleverly squeezed the ball out the back through their legs... and were nonplussed to find they had conceded a PK.

 

[Simon Thomas]

If we said that here our assessor would kill us. if howver we said "dangerous play" or "too slow to release" we would get away with it.

Kevin was reffing U15 as a club referee - he was clear and safety was paramount. As an assessor I am looking for management and clarity - keving ticked all my boxes.

Some youth players and coaches see squeezeball on TV and genuinely are not aware it is banned at U18 and younger ages.
Seems to me clear and immediate education / explanation is a good idea.

 

[Deeps]

- a sudden PK for dangerous play can leave most of them on the pitch bewildered, wondering what on earth I saw dangerous in that tackle that they didn't ? Bewilderment generally isn't good for ref credibility.

Quite right and there is no need for us to get paranoid about it. Part of the problem is that squeeze ball is not actually defined but where it is banned, it is banned. Young players have seen it on TV and, as always, will copy what they see; I cannot think for one moment that anyone actually coaches it as a technique.

Applying safety as the primary concern, my definition would include the player lying on his front and arching his body as he wriggles the ball down, hidden by his torso, to pop out between his legs. Clearly the player is vulnerable in this position from other players collapsing on top of him as his spine is not properly braced.

Yet I have no problem with a tackled player on his side popping the ball between his legs providing that it is immediately available; popping the ball between the legs by itself does not constitute squeeze ball. The application of common sense and an appreciation of what is potentially dangerous should guide us.

 

[Davet]

Part of the problem is that squeeze ball is not actually defined

See the U19 RFU Regs for a definition.

 

[PaulDG]

- education.. on the occasions i have penalised it the perpetrator of the squeezeball has been perplexed and surprised. They weren't doing it as a trained technique, it just seemed the right thing to do in spur of moment, they found themselves half tackled to their knees, and cleverly squeezed the ball out the back through their legs... and were nonplussed to find they had conceded a PK.

On the occasions I've penalised* it, I've stopped the game, called both teams over and explained to everyone why what's just happened is extremely dangerous and why it's a penalty.

*Junior matches.

 

[Deeps]

See the U19 RFU Regs for a definition.

Well, kiss my old boots, so that's where it's defined; thanks DaveT.

 

[TigerCraig]

Kevin was reffing U15 as a club referee - he was clear and safety was paramount. As an assessor I am looking for management and clarity - keving ticked all my boxes.

Some youth players and coaches see squeezeball on TV and genuinely are not aware it is banned at U18 and younger ages.
Seems to me clear and immediate education / explanation is a good idea.

Because, as I have said here before we have been given a directive that "Squeezball is not in and of itself an offence". This applies to any age group here.

Therefore if you penalize someone, and then state clearly that it was for doing something that every one has been told is not an offence you are in trouble

 

[Casey Bee]

Because, as I have said here before we have been given a directive that "Squeezball is not in and of itself an offence". This applies to any age group here.

Therefore if you penalize someone, and then state clearly that it was for doing something that every one has been told is not an offence you are in trouble

Sorry, you aren't making a lot of sense to me.

 

[crossref]

Squeezeball is, in itself, an offence under18 and below in England.

 

[SimonSmith]

Sorry, you aren't making a lot of sense to me.

It isn't an offence in and of itself in junior rugby where he is in much the same way it isn't in senior rugby in England.

You can squeeze the ball and have it come back quick and have the tackled player move away. It's when bodies fail to move away that the PK offence arises.

TigerC's statement makes perfect sense to me!