uncontested maul thingy

[Dixie]

I'm in the "do nothing" camp. No offence has been committed. I also take Crossref's view that the ball carrier can be tackled at any point so long as no maul has formed.

 

[ChrisR]

TF, good scenario.

Red won't want to try tackling the BC because, even if they don't give away the PK, they most likely will end up creating a maul. It would be difficult to bring down a player with two supports bound on. So Red simply hold their ground and wait for white to make their move.

White don't have to move. The ball is not 'unplayable'. This is general play. There is no call for 'use it' here. As the ball is in play there is no 'wasting time', either.

Menace has the right idea. Throw in a lawn chair for good measure.

 

[The Fat]

TF, good scenario.

Red won't want to try tackling the BC because, even if they don't give away the PK, they most likely will end up creating a maul. It would be difficult to bring down a player with two supports bound on. So Red simply hold their ground and wait for white to make their move.

White don't have to move. The ball is not 'unplayable'. This is general play. There is no call for 'use it' here. As the ball is in play there is no 'wasting time', either.

Menace has the right idea. Throw in a lawn chair for good measure.

Remember, technically the LO isn't over yet. White haven't moved from the line-of-touch and red have just opened a gap by stepping sideways and are also still at the line-of-touch so we are not in general play just yet. Still waiting for someone to do something. How long are we to wait?

 

[menace]

As long as they stand there and do nothing. It's their game...if they want to just stand still, then let them.
In reality someone will flinch.

 

[crossref]

you sometimes have stand off in 7s where the ball carrier is pretty much stationary looking for a gap/an option to attack on -- while the defneders - defensive line all perfectly formed, rather than break the line, just wait for the attackers to make a move.

it doesn't last long.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

How long are we to wait?

Just under 40 minutes for a men's game.

A match lasts no longer than 80 minutes plus time lost, extra time and any special conditions. A match is divided into two halves each of not more than forty minutes playing time.

Humour intended, not necessarily noticed

 

[Browner]

If the ball does not become playable/emerge from a ;

Maul - a scrum is awarded
Ruck - a scrum is awarded
Scrum - another scrum is awarded

So on that basis, why not treat Lineouts similarly ?

So I vote for UI, then scrum to opponents if they dont.

 

[ChrisR]

Then you are unnecessarily inserting yourself into the game.

On what grounds would you award the scrum and to whom?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

If the ball does not become playable/emerge from a ;

Maul - a scrum is awarded
Ruck - a scrum is awarded
Scrum - another scrum is awarded

So on that basis, why not treat Lineouts similarly ?

Snot covered in law

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Here is solution, forbid lifting in L/O and not straight is a FK

That or change FW law.

 

[FlipFlop]

You could always blow and award a scrum, and use 20.4 d to determine the feed.

[LAWS]20.4 (d) Scrum after any other stoppage. After any other stoppage or irregularity not covered by Law, the team that was moving forward before the stoppage throws in the ball. If neither team was moving forward, the attacking team throws in the ball.[/LAWS]

 

[didds]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Here is solution, forbid lifting in L/O and not straight is a FK

how would that stop the defensive tactic?

Before lifting etc it wasn't unknown for a team to still be devoid of any ability to win a lineout.

And that aside, in those days, *cough* bored *cough* props had little to do except skullduggery. (other positions for skullduggery are/were available. I merely speak from direct experience).

didds

 

[ChrisR]

You could always blow and award a scrum, and use 20.4 d to determine the feed.

[LAWS]20.4 (d) Scrum after any other stoppage. After any other stoppage or irregularity not covered by Law, the team that was moving forward before the stoppage throws in the ball. If neither team was moving forward, the attacking team throws in the ball.[/LAWS]

Yes, you could. Why would you? There hasn't been a 'stoppage' and this scenario is hardly an 'irregularity', just unusual.

This is not 'unplayable'. This not like a ruck where the ball winners have secured it to the point of 'no contest'. This not 'held up' which is a stalemate of a different kind.

Both sides have options. Let them decide.

 

[Browner]

On what grounds would you award the scrum and to whom?

I'm not saying its specifically covered currently, I'm saying that all other aspects of the game have a law covering 'not emerging from', so if we're not going to want a MSO to continue infinitum then perhaps a similar new law makes sence -
Anyway if we then scrum, at least one team will get a PK !!! :biggrin:


Personally, I'd favour a UI call, followed by a scrum feed to opponents. MSOs need to be discouraged IMO, can we play rugby play instead??
( although I acknowledge Crucials summary of how refereeing ' imbalance' has contributed to where we are at )

 

[didds]

I missed what "MSO" means - sorry!

didds

 

[Browner]

I missed what "MSO" means - sorry!

didds

Mexican Stand Off.

 

[crossref]

I really don't think we need new Laws to cover the scenario where all 30 players stand still waiting for someone else to move.

Yes, if it was happening frequently, we might to think about the best way to handle it, meanwhile has anyone ever seen it?
It's so unusual that if it does happen I don' think any one would fault a referee either for waiting it out indefintiely, or for eventually calling 'use it'.

 

[Browner]

Didn't The Fat post ....

I'm interested to hear how the referee should manage a different scenario when there is no engagement of the maul at the LO. This may not happen often but I bet that at community level, at least while teams are getting their heads around their options/tactics/counter tactics, it will happen. Most likely, in one of your games.

.
I've not seen it yet, but I'm now prepared for when I do.

 

[SimonSmith]

A plea.

There are commonly understood acronyms: PK, FK, RC, YC etc.

Then there are those that are less commonly understood: MSO,foe example.

Can we try to stop MSU, because AFAIK my knowledge of acronyms is hindering me

 

[menace]

Can we use FU? :biggrin: