Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 8 Pick Up?

Blackberry


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
1,125
Post Likes
202
I reffed an U15 Girls game on Sunday, and read up the regs the night before.

During the game the scrums went uncontested. One team began using No 8 Pick ups, the other coach button holed me and said you're not allowed to pick up at No 8 from uncontested scrum.

As I had seen nothing confirming this in the regs the night before I politely ignored her interpretation.

Can anyone throw any light on this? Was I right, and its another myth?
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,823
Post Likes
3,157
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

it's a common myth -- at all levels of rugby -- and you were quite right: the #8 can pick up. (make sure they stay bound properly until they do so, though...)
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,136
Post Likes
2,408
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Another myth.
You were right.
 

JJ10


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
61
Post Likes
16
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Always a good one this and one I have got wrong in the past. Why is it at all age groups and adult rugby they think as soon as it is uncontested they cant pick up?
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,823
Post Likes
3,157
Because some refs think so. :-(
So it is always worth asking
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Always a good one this and one I have got wrong in the past. Why is it at all age groups and adult rugby they think as soon as it is uncontested they cant pick up?

I can hazard a guess ...... Distant memory says that one introductory level (u9? u10?? ) no8s werent allowed to pick the ball up , its possible that at the same age the scrums were uncontested??? & Hense the 'age specific' reg gets life into a coaching group & that group metamorph into referees ....... ?

Just a theory.
 

Simon Thomas


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
12,848
Post Likes
189
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

A common myth and a typical example of a self-appointed expert, who are often coaches with no refereeing qualification.

I refereed both the Hampshire U15 and U18 Girls County sides four or five seasons ago, in support of the growth of the Game in that demographic. I had previously been highly supportive of my daughter's rugby career as an U18 and adult at all levels.

the two age-group matches were on the same day same venue one after the other and all I had were coaches and parents telling me what I could or could not do or special Law interpretations before the match, during the match, and after the match. At the time I was a Level 7 referee, Chairman of the Society, and very active with the RFU Referees Dept.

I had read the RFUW documentation about U15 and U18 Girls rugby and was very aware of requirements.

I have not refereed an U15 or U18 Girls match since.
 

Blackberry


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
1,125
Post Likes
202
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

A link to the RFU Regs pages might be winging its way to Oxfordshire :)

But sheeez, if I can find the regs for my one off involvement, can't the coaches do the same. Its like teaching your players all the laws except 17, 15 and 9 because you haven't found out what they are.

In fact...rant beginning here... when I get a junior appointment I will first confirm the coaches have read and coached to the age grade variations.

PS Simon I am in your neck of the woods tomorrow reffing an out and out friendly at Wide Lane, or given its hydrophobic tendencies, Trojans if there is anything damper than a light dew.
 

Womble

Facebook Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,277
Post Likes
47
Current Referee grade:
National Panel
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Interesting , at the south west festival at frome this year the festival rule was no 8 pick up at u15 level. Maybe that is where th confusion lies x
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,823
Post Likes
3,157
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Interesting , at the south west festival at frome this year the festival rule was no 8 pick up at u15 level. Maybe that is where th confusion lies x

I hate festival-speecific rules.
- there is always a number of referees who weren't at the brieifing / weren't listening and are not aware of the rule, so mistakes are made
- there are always a number of coaches who weren't at the briefing / didn't read the hand outs and are not aware of the rule, who get steamed up
- there are always a number of 14 year old players who were not told about today's special rule and unintentionally break it and concede a gotcha PK that really isn't fair for children who are doing their best, playing to the Laws that apply every other Sunday that season.

Why do festival organisers think that - on the fly - they can invent better Laws for an age group than the Laws in the book?
How do they think that their special made-up Laws can ever be consistently understood and applied?

Just play the game, with the proper Laws, that are in the Law book.


(plus there is always an agenda: show me a festival organiser who thinks the U15 game is better without pick ups, I'll show you an coach of an u15 team who have great wings and outside centres, but a rubbish back-row...)
 
Last edited:

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,148
Post Likes
1,839
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Always a good one this and one I have got wrong in the past. Why is it at all age groups and adult rugby they think as soon as it is uncontested they cant pick up?

presumably for the same reasons you did :)

didds
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,148
Post Likes
1,839
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

I can hazard a guess ...... Distant memory says that one introductory level (u9? u10?? ) no8s werent allowed to pick the ball up , its possible that at the same age the scrums were uncontested??? & Hense the 'age specific' reg gets life into a coaching group & that group metamorph into referees ....... ?

Just a theory.

U12 in England certainly.

But that is a specific reg/law at that age group which is in no other (In England anyway).

didds
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,148
Post Likes
1,839
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Interesting , at the south west festival at frome this year the festival rule was no 8 pick up at u15 level.

WTF?

WHYYYYY?????????

(rhetorical question)

didds
 

Womble

Facebook Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,277
Post Likes
47
Current Referee grade:
National Panel
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

WTF?

WHYYYYY?????????

(rhetorical question)

didds
Just the messenger ! Don't know why !
 

TheBFG


Referees in England
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
4,392
Post Likes
237
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

I can hazard a guess ...... Distant memory says that one introductory level (u9? u10?? ) no8s werent allowed to pick the ball up , its possible that at the same age the scrums were uncontested??? & Hense the 'age specific' reg gets life into a coaching group & that group metamorph into referees ....... ?

Just a theory.

You're right there mate, but it's more to do with the fact that at u9/10/11 there is no #8 :wink: (well there didn't used to be!) they come in at 12, but still not allowed to pick up.
 

AntonyGoodman


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
106
Post Likes
28
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Yes, no 'Number 8' at U9 (no scrum), U10 or U11 (both 3 man uncontested). Nor likely will there be from next year for U12 NRoP (5 man uncontested).

Thanks,

Antony
 
Last edited:

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

Yes, no 'Number 8' at U9 (no scrum), U10 or U11 (both 3 man uncontested). Nor likely will there be from next year for U12 NRoP (5 man uncontested).

Thanks,

Antony

To be Guessing at the source of the myth, we need two conditions to be satisfied ...uncontested & no #8 pick up. Where did that occur?

PS...5man uncontesteds at U12 on small pitches - really? ( where is the code for all shapes and sizes going?!!!!!)
Then at u13 8man, contests and full pitches

Will schools follow the u12 NRoP next year ......!!!??!!???
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Re: Uncontested Scrum at U15, Girls, Can the No 9 Pick Up?

You're right there mate, but it's more to do with the fact that at u9/10/11 there is no #8 :wink: (well there didn't used to be!) they come in at 12, but still not allowed to pick up.

But in isolation this would transfer into a general " no #8 pick up myth" , but it doesnt, so why at uncontesteds?? - its this aspect that is the catalyst to the myth me thinks.
 

AntonyGoodman


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
106
Post Likes
28
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
To be Guessing at the source of the myth, we need two conditions to be satisfied ...uncontested & no #8 pick up. Where did that occur?

PS...5man uncontesteds at U12 on small pitches - really? ( where is the code for all shapes and sizes going?!!!!!)
Then at u13 8man, contests and full pitches

Will schools follow the u12 NRoP next year ......!!!??!!???

Didn't mean to be controversial, just replying to TheBFG's question.

Thanks,

Antony
 
Top