Under 11's New Rules Of Play

[AntonyGoodman]

To give you an example where I think I can see what they were thinking:

[LAWS]9) d) Other than from a restart, a free kick or charge down, if from a kick the ball is played in flight by a player of the non-kicking team and knocked forward, a scrum will be awarded to the non-kicking team from where the ball is touched.
[/LAWS]

I think what they are trying to do here is slightly dissuade the use of the kick (in open play) and reward the attempt to catch the ball on the full (your ball, even if you drop it), but it would be great if it actually said this in the rules

Thanks,

Antony

 

[Browner]

Guys, this is what gets us into trouble with coaches and parents! I am all for having slightly different rules if it is of some benefit, just can't see it in this instance.

It would be great if when they published this kind of thing that they put some sort of reason behind the difference from the normal rules.

Thanks,

Antony

Anthony, i kinda understand the 'confusion point' you're making........but, No coach has any excuse for not reading the same regs as referees.

Parents are excused being unable to understand the subtle differences of our sport regs .....PROVIDED ....they don't verbally challenge/berate decisions of a referee.

 

[Stormkahn]

Hi Guys,
I've got a few questions!

Just a little background; I've volunteered to help ref for our U11s to free up the coaches to actually coach, especially at festivals later in the year so atm I've only reffed a couple of training sessions!

Anyway;
8m 1 + 2 rule in action and the requirement for the ball to be passed away from the contact area if a ruck has been formed. (8m-ii).

Neither mentions what the penalty is and we've been unable to find anything relevant elsewhere so we're going with a free kick under 5a-i Foul Play.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Stormkahn]

oh yes and another thing... (may be a few of these).

On a start/restart if the receiving team knocks on it's definitely a scum to the kicking team?

Section 4 doesn't mention knock-ons and 9d excludes restarts so that's what we've ruled for now?

cheers,

Dave.

 

[Browner]

Hi Guys,
I've got a few questions!

Just a little background; I've volunteered to help ref for our U11s to free up the coaches to actually coach, especially at festivals later in the year so atm I've only reffed a couple of training sessions!

Anyway;
8m 1 + 2 rule in action and the requirement for the ball to be passed away from the contact area if a ruck has been formed. (8m-ii).

Neither mentions what the penalty is and we've been unable to find anything relevant elsewhere so we're going with a free kick under 5a-i Foul Play.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Dave.

I think you're safe with awarding a FK, because the whole thrust of section 5 is FKs replacing PKs at this age grade .... Ie.. if all foul play is merely a FK !

 

[Browner]

oh yes and another thing... (may be a few of these).

On a start/restart if the receiving team knocks on it's definitely a scum to the kicking team?

Section 4 doesn't mention knock-ons and 9d excludes restarts so that's what we've ruled for now?

cheers,

Dave.

re:9d , it looks as though 'knock on from a restart' is excepted from being a scrum, which would seem to indicate its always PLAY ON .....

As always, there isnt any rfu thinking to accompany the amended/new u11 regs , so I can only imagine that this has been done to 'excuse' (ignore) catching errors that result in a 2nd restart ( scrum ) immediately following the restart ....

Least that's my reading of it ....

PS..9d also seems to act as a discouragement of Free Kicks being 'punted' , cos any resultant knock on by the catcher is similarly excepted (as above) and PLAY ON reigns

 

[Stormkahn]

re:9d , it looks as though 'knock on from a restart' is excepted from being a scrum, which would seem to indicate its always PLAY ON .....

As always, there isnt any rfu thinking to accompany the amended/new u11 regs , so I can only imagine that this has been done to 'excuse' (ignore) catching errors that result in a 2nd restart ( scrum ) immediately following the restart ....

Least that's my reading of it ....

PS..9d also seems to act as a discouragement of Free Kicks being 'punted' , cos any resultant knock on by the catcher is similarly excepted (as above) and PLAY ON reigns

Thanks Browner, I appreciate the guidance, as you say the RFU hasn't put any out...

12a-ii indicates a scum for a knock on hence the scum to the kicking team rather than play on.

Speaking as a newbie who's scratching his his over the regs I have to say they're poorly written. Too many odd rules in out of the way places that are easily missed! frex A missed passed bounced and went into touch so I ruled FP under 7a-i but was later told about 12d so it should have been a scrum. However 12a mentions none of this so in order to know what you can/can't award a scrum for you have to read the entire document. I'll get it but it could have been made easier.

Thanks again, the lads have a festival in a couple of weeks, it's going to be interesting...

cheers,

Dave.

 

[Browner]

Thanks Browner, I appreciate the guidance, as you say the RFU hasn't put any out...

12a-ii indicates a scum for a knock on hence the scum to the kicking team rather than play on.

Speaking as a newbie who's scratching his his over the regs I have to say they're poorly written. Too many odd rules in out of the way places that are easily missed! frex A missed passed bounced and went into touch so I ruled FP under 7a-i but was later told about 12d so it should have been a scrum. However 12a mentions none of this so in order to know what you can/can't award a scrum for you have to read the entire document. I'll get it but it could have been made easier.

Thanks again, the lads have a festival in a couple of weeks, it's going to be interesting...

cheers,

Dave.

12a ii is indeed the normal law, but (in the main, when the RFU have taken the trouble to write a separate section ) whenever you have a specific ....( and in this case 9 d is a set of specific exceptions ) these come into force.

In summary
Knock on = scrum opposition feed, except from restart/FK punt/charge down where the knock on is ignored.

Wait til 'unaware' spectators start shouting otherwise.

My advise is to have a checklist of ' key ' matters to discuss with the referee BEFORE his PMB, to aid the uniformity quest.

PS.. This is only my opinion, from reading, I havent refereed u11 this season yet.

 

[Browner]

A missed passed bounced and went into touch so I ruled Free Pass under 7a-i but was later told about 12d so it should have been a scrum.

However 12a mentions none of this so in order to know what you can/can't award a scrum for you have to read the entire document.

Assuming the pass that went into touch 'wasn't thrown forward' , then I agree with your straightforward award of a Free Pass restart under 7.1.a.

Why would anyone think otherwise?

 

[Stormkahn]

Assuming the pass that went into touch 'wasn't thrown forward' , then I agree with your straightforward award of a Free Pass restart under 7.1.a.

Why would anyone think otherwise?

sorry my fault, going of the top of my head so gave you a bum reference...

The ball was passed backwards and touched the ground before going out.

7ai Talks of a FP for ball into touch.
11d tells us it's a scum if it goes to ground 1st.
12a (offenses that lead to a scum) doesn't mention this.

Therefore we have concluded that a pass that goes out on the full is an FP, if it touches the ground 1st it's a scrum. I'm sure there's some logic

Cheers,

Dave.

Nottingham Corsairs

 

[Browner]

sorry my fault, going of the top of my head so gave you a bum reference...

The ball was passed backwards and touched the ground before going out.

7ai Talks of a FP for ball into touch.
11d tells us it's a scum if it goes to ground 1st.
12a (offenses that lead to a scum) doesn't mention this.

Therefore we have concluded that a pass that goes out on the full is an FP, if it touches the ground 1st it's a scrum. I'm sure there's some logic

Cheers,

Dave.

Nottingham Corsairs

11d prevails then.

What a strange ( unnecessary? ) Variation



CoarseHairs

 

[AntonyGoodman]

Anyway;
8m 1 + 2 rule in action and the requirement for the ball to be passed away from the contact area if a ruck has been formed. (8m-ii).

Neither mentions what the penalty is and we've been unable to find anything relevant elsewhere so we're going with a free kick under 5a-i Foul Play.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Dave.

I agree with yourself and Browner: FK

Thanks,

Antony

 

[AntonyGoodman]

12a ii is indeed the normal law, but (in the main, when the RFU have taken the trouble to write a separate section ) whenever you have a specific ....( and in this case 9 d is a set of specific exceptions ) these come into force.

In summary
Knock on = scrum opposition feed, except from restart/FK punt/charge down where the knock on is ignored.

Wait til 'unaware' spectators start shouting otherwise.

My advise is to have a checklist of ' key ' matters to discuss with the referee BEFORE his PMB, to aid the uniformity quest.

PS.. This is only my opinion, from reading, I havent refereed u11 this season yet.

[LAWS]9) d) Other than from a restart, a free kick or charge down, if from a kick the ball is played in flight by a player of the non-kicking team and knocked forward, a scrum will be awarded to the non-kicking team from where the ball is touched.[/LAWS]

From a free kick or a restart, a knock on is a knock on and it is scrum to the kicking team as per 12a ii.

It is only kicks from open play that 9d applies, and the scrum goes to the receiving team if they knock on.

This is how I read it anyway

Thanks,

Antony

 

[AntonyGoodman]

sorry my fault, going of the top of my head so gave you a bum reference...

The ball was passed backwards and touched the ground before going out.

7ai Talks of a FP for ball into touch.
11d tells us it's a scum if it goes to ground 1st.
12a (offenses that lead to a scum) doesn't mention this.

Therefore we have concluded that a pass that goes out on the full is an FP, if it touches the ground 1st it's a scrum. I'm sure there's some logic

Cheers,

Dave.

Nottingham Corsairs

I think this is a throwback to when they toyed with having scrums for ball in touch, they just haven't updated the 11d rule so that it is consistant with 7a.

I agree that you have correctly interpreted the rules as written, just not sure that that is what they should say.

Thanks,

Antony

 

[Stormkahn]

Thanks for all the responses guys, your a great help

Today's question from training; we had a restart were the kick was on the full rather than a drop kick under 4a. I waved play on to keep the game flowing and in practice it doesn't seem to matter if it's a drop kick or not.

We discussed it afterwards and shrugged. Technically a breech of 4a? If so the only applicable rule appears to be 4a i foul play and a FK to the receiving team?

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Dixie]

We discussed it afterwards and shrugged.

Lot to be said for this approach. Don't forget the purpose of the game at this age group - enjoyment and education. If the drop-out is taken with the wrong type of kick, don't shy away from bringing it back to be taken with the correct kick. If the players simply can't drop-kick, they need to learn this skill sharpish - but that's for the training ground. Let's not kill the game for them by penalising every cock-up.

 

[Browner]

Thanks for all the responses guys, your a great help

Today's question from training; we had a restart were the kick was on the full rather than a drop kick under 4a. I waved play on to keep the game flowing and in practice it doesn't seem to matter if it's a drop kick or not.

We discussed it afterwards and shrugged. Technically a breech of 4a? If so the only applicable rule appears to be 4a i foul play and a FK to the receiving team?

Cheers,

Dave.

If you're saying that there isn't a specific U11s variation saying otherwise (????)

Then , just give the receiving team ... ' Option' of (oppo Kick again ,or scrum with their own feed) cos surely general law 13.1(a) applies .

 

[AntonyGoodman]

With the restart, I have already given a team 'another go' because they got the kick wrong (not in the rules). I am sure this will be different when we get to the end of the season and it's a tournament Then I will be sticking to Browner's version of things.

Thanks,

Antony

 

[Browner]

With the restart, I have already given a team 'another go' because they got the kick wrong (not in the rules). I am sure this will be different when we get to the end of the season and it's a tournament Then I will be sticking to Browner's version of things.

Thanks,

Antony

It might still come as a shock to players who've had a second attempt all season ! , personally I don't support this approach, most kickers learn quick and then never repeat the error.

Its tough love !

 

[AntonyGoodman]

You may be right. I do at least say that you wouldn't normally get another chance, and let them know what they did wrong.

Thanks,

Antony