Unsportsmanlike behaviour

[stuart3826]

Scenario Red v Blue U15. Fiercely contested match - red camp in blue 22 for most of the first half but fail to get over the line - I believe because they failed to run the ball at the blue backs, preferring to use their pack to maul. Each time blue gain possession, they feed their backs, and 3 first half, 70m tries are scored.

7:40 seconds from full time, a strange incident occurred. Red 15 races back to cover a kick, knowing he has a man on, he drops to the floor to gather the ball - legally, I see nothing wrong in this. Blue player drops both knees into red 15's back.

I see this as deliberate, my suspicions are confirmed by his plea of "I was going for the ball sir!", as he made no attempt to grab the ball, which was on the far side of red 15. I go in my pocket, show him a yellow, and inform his skipper he won't be back, as there's less than 10 minutes left.

Just about to make the mark for the penalty, blue's players start cheering and clapping their sin binned player off the pitch - shouts of "Well done!" etc.

What would you have done - I'll tell you what I did after some replies

 

[Simon Thomas]

Well done Stuart.

Knees in back deliberately, I might be thinking red too, not just yellow.

We had a similar offence this season in an adult league match after a player had scored a try, defender late with both knees in back, not seen fully & so not penalised by referee, player was cited by home club, and now in major RFU disciplinary panel process with possible police action too.

Back to your incident at U15 level and the team-mate applause etc - big blow on whistle, "skipper please" and "coach please come on the pitch".

Calm and assertive talking to them both, player deliberately went to ground, so no legal attempt for the ball, plus two knees into the defender's back, highlighting potentially dangerous and serious injury possibility.
Stress the teams behaviour is totally unacceptable and against the culture and ethos of rugby. Depending on coach's reaction and your assessment of atmosphere, how well do you know the teams and what is your level of credibiliuty with them some possible options are :

• abandon match on safety grounds as you have a massive flashpoint building up
  
• award a + 10m on the penalty
  
• stick with marked penalty

 

[Bunniksider]

I would call both captains over, tell Blue that I was not happy at all with the unsportsmanlike behaviour and that I was minded to sin bin another player for said behaviour. I would instruct him to go and give them a stong talking to and to control his players. Tell Red that I have it under control and any retaliation would not be tolerated

March red 10m up field for penalty.

Keep a very tight rein on things for remaining 7 mins.

 

[stuart3826]

Well done Stuart.

Knees in back deliberately, I might be thinking red too, not just yellow.

We had a similar offence this season in an adult league match after a player had scored a try, defender late with both knees in back, not seen fully & so not penalised by referee, player was cited by home club, and now in major RFU disciplinary panel process with possible police action too.

Back to your incident at U15 level and the team-mate applause etc - big blow on whistle, "skipper please" and "coach please come on the pitch".

Calm and assertive talking to them both, player deliberately went to ground, so no legal attempt for the ball, plus two knees into the defender's back, highlighting potentially dangerous and serious injury possibility.
Stress the teams behaviour is totally unacceptable and against the culture and ethos of rugby. Depending on coach's reaction and your assessment of atmosphere, how well do you know the teams and what is your level of credibiliuty with them some possible options are :

• abandon match on safety grounds as you have a massive flashpoint building up
  
• award a + 10m on the penalty
  
• stick with marked penalty

just for the record, I know both teams reasonably well - the home team is my current club, the away team was where I got my L1 coaches chit. I've also reffed a good number of the blue team in schools matches this season.

Atmosphere up to then was fine - no problems at all. I didn't see this as a flashpoint.

So, as the cheering started, I blew again, said clearly in earshot of the coaches and parents "Unsportsmanlike behaviour, the sin bin is nothing to be proud of, no more of this please!" and marched them back the 10 metres. That took them out of the attacking red zone, and they never got back into it either.

 

[Davet]

I was minded to sin bin another player for said behaviour.

Which one?

And if one why not all the applauders?

I would suggest as ST did - talk to captains, and at this age level coaches as well.

Whilst I may understand that the player may have had a brilliant game upto that point, and they are appluading him perhaps in the same way as if he had been injured, and was being clapped off - however, in the circumstances it comes dangerously close to dissent, and appears to condone a serious act of foul play (for which a Red Card may have been more appropriate).

I don't think I would make a huge issue of it - after all if they later award that player MoM status there is bu99er all I can do or say, but I can control events on the pitch and would try to make the point calmly and reasonably.

PS just read Stuart's post - sounds perfectly fine way of dealing with it to me.

 

[Simon Thomas]

with the additionbal background info Stuart, sounds as if you got it just right.

 

[ddjamo]

sounds good stu...and after meeting you I know it would take quite a bit to get your temp up...

 

[Robert Burns]

This is exactly what took me out of playing the game.

I was playing for Wasps 2's and we were playing Richmond, i was normally a SH but was quite tall so had been put as Full back.

Ball over the top, i chased back dropped to gather ball, before I could get up Richmond winger dropped both his knees on my back.

I lay there in agony, As the medical staff carefully moved me I felt sharp pain rip through my spine and I was in tears with the pain. I was scared to death that I had broken my back and that my life was now different, life flashing in front of your eyes is true!

Luckily it was 'just' a muscle tear, but while I was informed I was lucky, it took me out of the game for the rest of the season and off work for nearly four weeks.

When I returned I was a bit more careful and having had a close call enquired into insurance, I was told they would all insure me to play rugby, but none would cover me if the injury was my back again. I wasn't going to risk it.

Oh, and what happened to the player that performed the drop on my back? Just a penalty.

So hence I became a referee...

I have only ever seen a player do this once in my time of refereeing, knowing the dangers first hand, it got a red from me.

 

[Phil E]

I have only ever seen a player do this once in my time of refereeing, knowing the dangers first hand, it got a red from me.

It would have been a red from me as well.

When a player did this to me I ended up with 3 cracked ribs and was in agony for about two months.

Cheering handled well I think.

 

[Simon Thomas]

For last 14 years I have attended the Jersey Vets 10s each October (played for first 5 years and reffed ever since).

In all that time I have seen final warnings given but never even a YC. My referees' briefing at start of tournament is always "manage it chaps" including compulsory subs if necessary for persistent offences, no draws and no cards.

In 2006 Richmond Heavies and Esher Vets were both over there and played in a pool match on day 1.

A Hampshire colleague was reffing this match - he is an ex Blaydon openside so no angel ! Esher's "flyer" had scored a few and had a further gallop, then slowed to go down under the posts in a heap - the chasing Richmond player arrived quite a few seconds later and with both knees when straight into the scorer's back. Gasps from the crowd - couple of hundred strong - my colleague (just inside 22m to avoid a jug of course) looks back at me and puts his arms out. I pull out my red card discretely so he can see it and he pulls out his too.

Richmond convened an immediate disciplinary committee there & then in the changing rooms and an hour later the dismissed player was at the airport flying home a day early. Richmond bought a first round of drinks in the clubhouse later and personally apologised not just to the player hurt and Esher, but to every team and referee there.

The Esher player went to hospital and I was told had severe bruising and two cracked ribs (we had to do a dismissal report at Richmond's request) - but was seen "on the pull" in Chambers later that evening so wasn't to bad.

 

[Robert Burns]

They never bought me a drink!

But to be fair, I wasn't really in the mood to stand at the Sudbury bar in pain pretending everything was alright.

I was also in the RAF at the time and that night was supposed to be going to the Annual Ball, I went, but I didn't enjoy it in the slightest.

 

[Simon Thomas]

But to be fair, I wasn't really in the mood to stand at the Sudbury bar in pain pretending everything was alright.

I rarely stood at the bar at Sudbury - usually sat down picking the sand & grit out of my leg wounds !

And if I did stand at the bar, I would get nabbed by Tony Vickers and his crew and a few hours later fall over anyway. :bday:

 

[Casey Bee]

For last 14 years I have attended the Jersey Vets 10s each October (played for first 5 years and reffed ever since).

In all that time I have seen final warnings given but never even a YC. My referees' briefing at start of tournament is always "manage it chaps" including compulsory subs if necessary for persistent offences, no draws and no cards.

In 2006 Richmond Heavies and Esher Vets were both over there and played in a pool match on day 1.

A Hampshire colleague was reffing this match - he is an ex Blaydon openside so no angel ! Esher's "flyer" had scored a few and had a further gallop, then slowed to go down under the posts in a heap - the chasing Richmond player arrived quite a few seconds later and with both knees when straight into the scorer's back. Gasps from the crowd - couple of hundred strong - my colleague (just inside 22m to avoid a jug of course) looks back at me and puts his arms out. I pull out my red card discretely so he can see it and he pulls out his too.

Richmond convened an immediate disciplinary committee there & then in the changing rooms and an hour later the dismissed player was at the airport flying home a day early. Richmond bought a first round of drinks in the clubhouse later and personally apologised not just to the player hurt and Esher, but to every team and referee there.

The Esher player went to hospital and I was told had severe bruising and two cracked ribs (we had to do a dismissal report at Richmond's request) - but was seen "on the pull" in Chambers later that evening so wasn't to bad.

And I hope they made him walk to the airport too.

 

[Robert Burns]

I rarely stood at the bar at Sudbury - usually sat down picking the sand & grit out of my leg wounds !

And if I did stand at the bar, I would get nabbed by Tony Vickers and his crew and a few hours later fall over anyway. :bday:

It was a great club, I never got away with not being fined though, either for scoring, for giving away a score, for player of the day, or for anything really, I always seemed to be pulled up!

Unfortunately that was the last game of rugby I played, I occasionally think about playing a vets game or something, but always bottle out, just in case.

 

[Simon Thomas]

And I hope they made him walk to the airport too.

I would assunme so as it is less than a mile away and he would be visible from the clubhouse balcony

 

[Casey Bee]

I would assunme so as it is less than a mile away and he would be visible from the clubhouse balcony

Walk of shame! You must know Jersey quite well going over so often. I expect in times gone by your club would have met Jersey RFC too? Do you follow their progress at all? Over 900 points difference this season!

 

[Simon Thomas]

I have played Jersey at 1st XV and Vets levels, have reffed them at 1st (League and Cup), 2nd XV & Vets (Siam Cup weekend) and Colts/U17 (Hants Cup). Yes I know them very well over there.

Also Jersey Refs Association is afflilated to Hampshire so we look after them admin wise and have their rising stars over to the mainland for exchange appointments as they can only ref Jersey 2nds, Jersey United Banks and Les Quennevais, plus schools matches. 1st XV are South East Group level refs.

I follow progress of all clubs in National 3 London&SE and National 3SW. Jersey won London&SE by a mile this season (they are paying some players a fair bit) and now are promoted to the National Leagues proper - so now not just a ref but also 2xTJs, and Assessor to be flown over £££££.

 

[Casey Bee]

Jersey won London&SE by a mile this season (they are paying some players a fair bit) and now are promoted to the National Leagues proper - so now not just a ref but also 2xTJs, and Assessor to be flown over £££££.

Certainly Jersey ambitions are high and at the moment they have plenty of £££££ (compared to many clubs) Time will tell as to how big the bottomless pit is!

 

[didds]

Just about to make the mark for the penalty, blue's players start cheering and clapping their sin binned player off the pitch - shouts of "Well done!" etc.

sorry - were Blue being appreciative of their sinbinned player, or were they being ironic - taking the p1ss out of him?

didds

 

[stuart3826]

sorry - were Blue being appreciative of their sinbinned player, or were they being ironic - taking the p1ss out of him?

didds

Quite definitely applauding him for the foul play, not taking the piss.