[6N] Wayne Barnes communication

[DocY]

If he told a ref just to "shut up" he could be facing a dismissal. It is not the swear word that earns the RC.

The language does help to an extent, though - it's easy to give a RC if a player tells you to shut up, but if he said "Sir, would you mind awfully being quiet?" it'd be much harder.

 

[crossref]

I can't see that it's ever OK for a player to ask a ref to be quiet(er).

But players do sometimes have to ask the ref to move. and there are ways of doing that..

 

[didds]

I get what you are saying CR, but that isn;t the circumstances that are being discussed here.

didds

 

[ChrisR]

Can you get a RC for saying that at the PMB? How about "Sir, any chance of getting the game in today?"

 

[DocY]

Can you get a RC for saying that at the PMB? How about "Sir, any chance of getting the game in today?"

I imagine any referee who lets his PMB go on for that long lacks the self awareness to see the funny side!

 

[TheBFG]

Look I understand that it's not the best approach and of course is a player swore at a ref he'd be in trouble, but even that would depend on the context.

In this situation you have a player that had far too much to say for himself (not necessarily at me) and he was causing issues for everyone, i'd asked him to keep it down, but he'd continued to have too much to say and it was having an effect on the game, so he got the "XXXX will you just shut the fcuk up" he did! "well said sir" came the call from a number of the opposition and even one of his own players, it got a giggle and everyone got on with the game.

I did apologise to him after the game, his response, "to be fair, I deserved it!"

If as a ref I was reffing a game sooooo badly that a player told me to "shut the fcuk up", he/she might well be in trouble but so would I for having such a poor game!

 

[DocY]

A lot depends on the context and a lot depends on your personality - what works for one ref won't necessarily work for another. If TheBFG (or Barnes) find that their way of communicating works for them then great. It doesn't mean anyone should copy them (I know one ref get a few complaints when he tried to be like Nige), but I don't think it's fair to criticise them for doing something that works - though perhaps a caveat that if they get it wrong they could be in trouble.

And I don't think comparing what a referee can say with what a player can say is terribly useful - we probably give about one lecture a game, and rightly so, and if a player ever gave us a lecture we wouldn't stand for it

 

[didds]

My 2p is worthless I appreciate - but I feel you are getting into a very dodgy area if you start feeling its correct to use vernacular at players that would warrant a card on return.

I accept context is everything - but you have be sure that the context is fully understood by everybody there. Best to just not go there .

I am in a minority of one I accept.

didds

 

[Rushforth]

In one of my very earliest games as a referee I was poorly positioned between the attacking #9 and #10. The #9 was American, and said something along the lines of "get the f*** out of the way PLEASE SIR".

 

[DocY]

My 2p is worthless I appreciate - but I feel you are getting into a very dodgy area if you start feeling its correct to use vernacular at players that would warrant a card on return.

I wouldn't say it's correct and I wouldn't advise anyone to do it - it has a lot of potential to end badly - but if it works for a particular ref and he's sufficiently good at judging the mood, I wouldn't have a problem.

 

[TheBFG]

Like you say, "within the right context", next week i'm reffin on exchange, 2 sides I've never reffed, I won't be telling any of them to "shut the fcuk up" :wink: (well not without covering my assessor mic up first :wink: )

 

[Rich_NL]

I wonder to what extent it varies between countries/cultures, as well. Holland has a very non-hierarchical culture with meetings and consensus about *everything*, and I have the strong impression that there's a lot more discussion tolerated with the ref, and even that dissent goes less punished, than in most tier 1 countries.

 

[DocY]

I wonder to what extent it varies between countries/cultures, as well. Holland has a very non-hierarchical culture with meetings and consensus about *everything*, and I have the strong impression that there's a lot more discussion tolerated with the ref, and even that dissent goes less punished, than in most tier 1 countries.

I wouldn't be surprised. I know it's not quite the same thing, but I did a private school game once. Zero back chat and they even stood up when I went into the changing room!

 

[winchesterref]

I know a referee who broke up two scrapping players by barging in the middle of them and saying "if you don't stop ****ing fighting, I'll ****ing bang the pair of you".

He is huge. They stopped.

 

[OB..]

I wouldn't say it's correct and I wouldn't advise anyone to do it - it has a lot of potential to end badly - but if it works for a particular ref and he's sufficiently good at judging the mood, I wouldn't have a problem.

If I heard a ref talking like that, during the debrief I would certainly be discussing the issue and advising against it on the grounds that the risk is not worth it.

 

[Blackberry]

I wouldn't be surprised. I know it's not quite the same thing, but I did a private school game once. Zero back chat and they even stood up when I went into the changing room!

In Bucks we get that every game.