What is the sanction for Law 6.30?

[Stu10]

Law 6.30. No additional persons should approach, address or aim comments at the match officials, except for medics in relation to the treatment of a player.

Over the weekend I was having a discussion with a couple of friends (1 a player, 1 a ref) following a referee awarding an on field penalty in response to comments from a coach in the technical area. My ref colleague believes this is allowed as a sanction for breaching law 6.30, but the law book does not state a sanction under law 6.30, though it references a penalty sanction for the laws above within this GLT.

I do not think an on field penalty can be given for a coach breaching 6.30... but what is the sanction? Is this listed only as a law to quote in an abuse report?

Further to this, we were discussing interpretation of the first sentence in this GLT, "Any additional person who fails to adhere to the Laws may be cautioned or sent off and misconduct charges may be issued by the Match organiser." In relation to a coach, for example, can/would you brandish a card or simply instruct them to leave the playing enclosure?

 

[crossref]

i think that the intention of the Law Trial is that referees CAN now give an on field PK for the actions of a non-player.
although the wording omitted to say that explicitly for 6.30, I think there's enough there to justify you giving a PK if you want.

for the second point - if the person in question is actually on the pitch, and you are ordering them to leave, based on the GLT, I think you should show a RC, so that it's clear to everyone.

Caveat - I don't think you should RC a medic, as then it might not be safe to continue. Or alternatively if you do RC a medic, you have to be prepared to also abandon the game (depending on what other medical support was left)

 

[didds]

Red v Blue
So if I am a red team supporter, but wear a blue team colours and just shout incessant abuse at the ref I can buy my team (red) unlimited PKs?

Oooo...

 

[crossref]

Red v Blue
So if I am a red team supporter, but wear a blue team colours and just shout incessant abuse at the ref I can buy my team (red) unlimited PKs?

Oooo...

i would have you thrown out first

 

[chbg]

Red v Blue
So if I am a red team supporter, but wear a blue team colours and just shout incessant abuse at the ref I can buy my team (red) unlimited PKs?

Oooo...

That doesn't qualify you as an "additional person". Just another ****-in-the-**** outside the playing enclosure.

 

[didds]

Ah -= gotcha CHBG...

 

[Stu10]

In addition to @crossref , do others think that referees CAN now give an on field PK for the actions of a non-player?

 

[crossref]

In addition to @crossref , do others think that referees CAN now give an on field PK for the actions of a non-player?

Not for a spectator. But yes for someone connected with the team

GLT

ADDITIONAL PERSONS

Any additional person who fails to adhere to the Laws may be cautioned or sent off and misconduct charges may be issued by the Match organiser.

Appropriately trained and accredited first-aid or immediate (pitch-side) care persons may enter the playing area to attend to injured players at any time it is safe to do so.
There may be up to two medics, one on either side of the pitch, who may follow play.
These medics can only carry and provide water to a player that they are treating.
Medics cannot field, or touch a ball while it is in live play.
Sanction: Penalty where play would restart.
The following may enter the playing area provided they do not interfere with play:
Two nominated water carriers during a stoppage in play for an injury to a player or when a try has been scored. (Note: the hot weather guidelines may warrant a one minute break per half.)
In matches with a squad size of 23, water carriers may only enter when a try is scored – the scoring side to an area on/near the 10m line in their own half. The non-scoring side, can take water into in-goal or retrieve from behind the dead-ball line. The water carriers must leave when the conversion is taken.
At a penalty try, no water carriers may enter the field.
Only when no tries are scored should a natural stoppage, in a neutral place on the pitch, be used to allow players to receive water. Where this coincides with an injury, water-carriers must leave the pitch as the medic leaves the pitch.
Players may access water in the Technical zone and from behind their own dead ball line. If water is left in-goal this privilege will be removed.
A water carrier must not be a Head Coach or Director of Rugby.
A person carrying only a kicking tee and one water bottle, (solely for the kicker’s use) after a team has indicated they intend to kick at goal, or a try has been scored.
The coaches attending to their teams at half-time.
These additional persons must remain in their technical area at all times before entering the field of play as permitted above. They must not field or touch the ball while it is in live play, including while in the technical area.
Sanction: Penalty where play would restart.
No additional persons should approach, address or aim comments at the match officials, except for medics in relation to the treatment of a player.
The management of replacements may be delegated to sideline managers appointed by the match organiser. Information relating to sideline management can be found at: https://officiating.worldrugby.org

 

[Stu10]

Not for a spectator. But yes for someone connected with the team

GLT

The ways the laws are written, the sanction relates to the laws above... there is no sanction written below the line stating "No additional persons should approach, address or aim comments at the match officials, except for medics in relation to the treatment of a player."

 

[crossref]

The ways the laws are written, the sanction relates to the laws above... there is no sanction written below the line stating "No additional persons should approach, address or aim comments at the match officials, except for medics in relation to the treatment of a player."

Yes but that is the OP question.
What is the sanction do you think ?

(I wouldn't give a PK btw, but in my view a ref who wanted to , now could justify it)

 

[didds]

and (not here I strongly beleive - nay HOPE!) somebody somewhere will at sometime red card the CAPTAIN for a 2nd party's actions...

 

[Phil E]

It would have been helpful if they had added "Additional Persons" to the definitions!

 

[Stu10]

It would have been helpful if they had added "Additional Persons" to the definitions!

I agree! My interpretation is anyone associated with the match day squad (e.g. coach, water carrier, medic) that is not a player. Spectators are not members of the match day squad!

Yes but that is the OP question.
What is the sanction do you think ?

(I wouldn't give a PK btw, but in my view a ref who wanted to , now could justify it)

The OP question is from me! As per my OP, I do not think an on field penalty can be given for a coach breaching 6.30, but offenses under this law can be cited, but I don't find this an ideal situation.

 

[crossref]

The OP question is from me! As per my OP, I do not think an on field penalty can be given for a coach breaching 6.30, but offenses under this law can be cited, but I don't find this an ideal situation.

Scenario : A water carrier approaches me and offers me water. "Yes please".. Then while I am drinking it he says, very politely and conversationally, 'Sir, can I mention something: their tight head is boring in, and constantly off his feet at rucks'

Now clearly that's a breach of 6:30

But it's not MOA so it's not citable.

Could I give a PK? Well, I wouldn't, but what if he was the third or fourth person to try this? Would I be tempted to ? I guess I would.

I dunno. It seems to me that the GLTs would justify a PK if I wanted to give one (Say - as the next step in an Ask / tell / PK process)

 

[Phil E]

Scenario : A water carrier approaches me and offers me water. "Yes please".. Then while I am drinking it he says, very politely and conversationally, 'Sir, can I mention something: their tight head is boring in, and constantly off his feet at rucks'

Now clearly that's a breach of 6:30

But it's not MOA so it's not citable.

Could I give a PK? Well, I wouldn't, but what if he was the third or fourth person to try this? Would I be tempted to ? I guess I would.

I dunno. It seems to me that the GLTs would justify a PK if I wanted to give one (Say - as the next step in an Ask / tell / PK process)

I would be telling him in no uncertain terms that his approach was unacceptable. I would then tell the coach to ensure it didn't happen again.
I very much doubt it would happen again after that. If it did I would probably send a report to the disciplinary for a breach of regulation 6.

This would be in the same way I fill one out if a coach enters the field of play after being told that he can't.

 

[crossref]

I would be telling him in no uncertain terms that his approach was unacceptable. I would then tell the coach to ensure it didn't happen again.
I very much doubt it would happen again after that. If it did I would probably send a report to the disciplinary for a breach of regulation 6.

This would be in the same way I fill one out if a coach enters the field of play after being told that he can't.

But would you ever give a PK ?

 

[Phil E]

But would you ever give a PK ?

Don't think so, haven't done up to now. I need to find out what other Societies are doing on this? Has it been communicated to their members?
I have a feeling we will be told this is just for the top level, but I need to get some clarity.

 

[crossref]

I have a feeling we will be told this is just for the top level, but I need to get some clarity.

I agree with that. For me it's never really going to be appropriate to give an on field PK

 

[didds]

I agree! My interpretation is anyone associated with the match day squad (e.g. coach, water carrier, medic) that is not a player. Spectators are not members of the match day squad!

of course that makes sense. But with the lack of definition, you know that some overly officious ref (probably not a society member, or never having been to a society meeting for a decade as they always know better than everybody else after all) , somewhere, will be handing out a RC to some random spectator and a PK to one of the teams for somebody shouting out of the window from a passing bus at somebody not even associated with the game. You know it WILL happen

 

[Jarrod Burton]

I agree! My interpretation is anyone associated with the match day squad (e.g. coach, water carrier, medic) that is not a player. Spectators are not members of the match day squad!

What about (as has happened to me) the President of the Club, in his jacket after introducing himself to me as the club president and saying "if you need anything sir, just ask" then screaming abuse at me and riling up their supporters?

I PK'ed the team and told the captain why - his response was one of the most expletive filled sentences aimed squarely at his President and his cronies which quietened them for a short period.

I turfed the President from the ground in the end - his VP was mortified by his behaviour and very apologetic.