When is line out over

[Jenko]

If in a line out the ball is not caught cleanly and goes to floor would that be line out over and allow back lines to approach within 10m.

That is how I have always interpreted the law however the referee at todays game felt that it had to leave the line of touch.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Have a look at 19.9 (b)

Referee was correct - the ball has to physically leave the lineout, so if it is on ground bobbling about between the two lines of players the lineout is still active and both teams' non-particpants must stay at their 10m offside lines.

 

[Jenko]

BUt how can it be on the ground between the 2 lines if it has not been knocked on?

 

[didds]

team A playing left to right reaches over right to LoT and knocks down towards the left but it falls between the two lines?

It is a knock on but the ref is playing advantage? [we do still all believe refs should follow the laws don't we?]

didds

 

[OB..]

If the ball goes to ground between the lines of players, it has not left the lineout.
If it is caught and pulled down then held out for the receiver to take, it is still controlled by a player in the lineout, so has not left it.
If it is knocked down into the gap between lineout players and receiver, it has left the lineout.

IMHO.

 

[Dixie]

There is a common misconception (perhaps held by the majority of players and coaches in England, Didds of course excepted) that a "clean catch" is needed before the backs can be held back 10m. In fact, no catch is needed at all. The lineout starts when the ball leaves the thrower's ahdns; it ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout; or when a maul or ruck that forms around the ball has fully moved beyond the line of touch.

So if the front pod moves forward, the back pod moves backwards and the poor throw lands in the middle, then if the ball doesn't leave the lineout the backs have to stay back until the rear foot of the ensuing ruck or maul moves beyond the line of touch. The same is true if the ball bobbles around from finger tip to finger tip before being caught, or if it is dropped (not backwards) by a would-be catcher.

 

[Jenko]

Dixie you didn't include

When the ball is thrown, knocked or kicked out of the lineout, the lineout ends

So in a typical U14 lineout the ball is bobbing around and ends up on ground 1 metre to the left or right of the line of touch the line out is over, is that correct?

 

[Dixie]

Dixie you didn't include

When the ball is thrown, knocked or kicked out of the lineout, the lineout ends

So in a typical U14 lineout the ball is bobbing around and ends up on ground 1 metre to the left or right of the line of touch the line out is over, is that correct?

That is correct. I thought I did include the bit you say I omitted - I thought I mentioned it twice!

There is a common misconception (perhaps held by the majority of players and coaches in England, Didds of course excepted) that a "clean catch" is needed before the backs can be held back 10m. In fact, no catch is needed at all. The lineout starts when the ball leaves the thrower's ahdns; it ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout; or when a maul or ruck that forms around the ball has fully moved beyond the line of touch.

So if the front pod moves forward, the back pod moves backwards and the poor throw lands in the middle, then if the ball doesn't leave the lineout the backs have to stay back until the rear foot of the ensuing ruck or maul moves beyond the line of touch. The same is true if the ball bobbles around from finger tip to finger tip before being caught, or if it is dropped (not backwards) by a would-be catcher.

I expect you've thought up a way the ball could leave the lineout without being thrown, knocked or kicked. My bad - I'll try to better next time Jenko. Soz :wink:

 

[Jenko]

Sorry Dixie. I didn't fully read your answer. I now consider myself part of your signature.:shrug: I will try harder.

 

[Swiss Ref]

Line out caught at front, the ball having gone 5 metres with momentum carrying player into the area between 5 metres and touch. A maul develops. Should the non participants remain 10 metres?

"When the ball or a player carrying the ball moves into the area between the 5-metre line
and the touchline, the lineout ends."

or

"When a ruck or maul develops in a lineout, and all the feet of all the players in the ruck or
maul move beyond the line of touch, the lineout ends."
Is the crucial thing where the maul started, in the Line out or not?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Line out caught at front, the ball having gone 5 metres with momentum carrying player into the area between 5 metres and touch. A maul develops. Should the non participants remain 10 metres?

"When the ball or a player carrying the ball moves into the area between the 5-metre line and the touchline, the lineout ends."

Why should they stay 10m ? The line out is over once the ball cross the 5m line towards the touchline - you answer your own question with the bold Law quote above. It is am a) or b) requirement.

 

[Dixie]

Spot on, ST.

 

[Swiss Ref]

Thanks Guys

Exactly as I played it on a couple of occassions on saturday when there was a continuing tactic to throw to number1 jumper. Opposing learned coach after he game was politely adamant that I was wrong and that because, as the feet of all those in the maul had not crossed the line of touch then non-participants should remain 10 metres. His point being that the reference to ball/player being between 5 metres etc did not apply to a maul. However my French is not good and his English worse so my English Law book did not convince him either.

He was so insistent it got me thinking.......