YC return

Flish


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
1,543
Post Likes
357
Location
Durham
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
For me, if bin is at 9:50 when try is scored then he’s staying off the pitch, then i’m wrapping the formalities, mark score, watch the conversion, and jogging back. At this point if we’re beyond 10:00, I can address my focus to the bin before the restart and wave him on
 

Balones

Referee Advisor / Assessor
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
1,475
Post Likes
520
Not if the mark for the scrum has been made by the time the YC time is up.

Scenario

Scrum set and collapses/requires a reset. YC time is up. Do you let the YC player back on to the FoP for the reset? i would suggest not, as you are still in the same phase of play (even though you may choose to 'time off' to talk with the FR about their scrum discipline)

I would suggest in your latter point with a time off that this is technically incorrect. Time is dead and it has to be dead for both sides and you don’t gave grounds for refusing a returning player when the ball/time is dead. I would also suggest that if you stop play to speak to the front rows as to indicate then perhaps it would be in your own best interests to allow the return of a better prop for example to prevent further issues at the scrum, or even allow a carded prop to return to all for contested scrums if they had gone non-contested etc. What if there was an injury to a FR player between scrums? Allow a prop on and not a full back? This approach would be inconsistent and needs to be avoided. The only consistent way to handle this situation is to allow a YC on if there is time off, even if it is something we would prefer not to do. For an ordinary reset it doesn’t apply since we still have a live situation ss you say.

Personally unless it is serious and deserved a lengthy word of warning I would expect a quick word for the reset.
 
Last edited:

TheBFG


Referees in England
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
4,392
Post Likes
237
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
You're the only one that knows the time on the bin, wait until the conversion is taken and then call him back on, problem solved!
 

OB..


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
22,981
Post Likes
1,838
You're the only one that knows the time on the bin
Very true. I often get coaches asking me why their player is not back on yet because the 10 minutes has elapsed. I simply point out that it is playing time that counts, thus excluding "time off" called by the referee.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
You're the only one that knows the time on the bin, wait until the conversion is taken and then call him back on, problem solved!

Even better, rather than dissembling about the time, is to do the right thing, surely.

But if you like transport the scenario to the professional game, with public timers visible to people so the time elapsed is no longer secret
 

TheBFG


Referees in England
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
4,392
Post Likes
237
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
the referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law. It is essential that all players respect the referee's decisions at all times :wink:
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
the referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law. It is essential that all players respect the referee's decisions at all times :wink:

We referees gain that respect by being impartial and keeping to the Law
 

thepercy


Referees in America
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
923
Post Likes
147
Current Referee grade:
Level 1
I'll answer the question with a question.

If there was a knock on, no advantage, scrum. Look at your watch, less than 10 minutes playing time has elapsed for YC player. Before everyone is formed up for the scrum, the 10 minutes is up, do you invite the YC player back on, or wait for next dead ball?
 

chbg


Referees in England
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
1,490
Solutions
1
Post Likes
450
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
I'll answer the question with a question.

If there was a knock on, no advantage, scrum. Look at your watch, less than 10 minutes playing time has elapsed for YC player. Before everyone is formed up for the scrum, the 10 minutes is up, do you invite the YC player back on, or wait for next dead ball?

I generally wait until the next dead ball, but, TBH, 20 secs less than 10 mins playing time is definitely no; 5 seconds less may well depend on how generous/pissed off I am feeling.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
I'll answer the question with a question.

If there was a knock on, no advantage, scrum. Look at your watch, less than 10 minutes playing time has elapsed for YC player. Before everyone is formed up for the scrum, the 10 minutes is up, do you invite the YC player back on, or wait for next dead ball?

not sure that necessarily has to have the the same answer.
Yes, I think I would let him on. .
. Ten playing minutes have elapsed
.. the ball is dead
 

ChrisR

Player or Coach
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
3,231
Post Likes
356
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
If his (YC player) time is up then he should be allowed back on and rejoin the game, including taking the conversion kick. If there had been a long period of uninterrupted play and he's been in the bin 12-13 minutes shouldn't he be allowed back on at the next dead ball (and a try is a dead ball)?
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
If his (YC player) time is up then he should be allowed back on and rejoin the game, including taking the conversion kick. If there had been a long period of uninterrupted play and he's been in the bin 12-13 minutes shouldn't he be allowed back on at the next dead ball (and a try is a dead ball)?

That's an easy one, yes

It's when he has been in the bin 09:50 that the conundrum arises
 

Blackberry


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
1,125
Post Likes
202
Is there a World Rugby decision on this, or precedent from a game?
 

Thunderhorse1986


Referees in England
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
226
Post Likes
0
Are you really counting YC to the second when you are solely responsible for time, score and all other aspects of the game?

I'm looking at the big figure on my watch. If he went off when the clock shows 22, he can come back on when it shows 32 or beyond!

K.I.S.S.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
Are you really counting YC to the second when you are solely responsible for time, score and all other aspects of the game?

I'm looking at the big figure on my watch. If he went off when the clock shows 22, he can come back on when it shows 32 or beyond!

K.I.S.S.

What if it says 31 ? They have 90s to make the kick right.

What if there was a big stadium clock so everyone could see the time?

Is it ok that some of your YC last 9 minutes and others last 11min ?
 
Last edited:

Balones

Referee Advisor / Assessor
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
1,475
Post Likes
520
At the community level of the game the referee will determine the time and nobody is really in a position to argue. Unless of course it is completely way out. At L4 and above we are starting to have more consequences of having incorrect return times. Here we start having people’s salary at stake if nothing else. We also start having consequences related to sponsorship if the mistiming causes a result that has impact on relegation or promotion etc. As the value of the timing goes up so the decision as to when return must be be more accurate/precise. I mention L4 and above because all games at this level in RFU land are filmed and can be monitored.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
Yes and even at my lowly level I know perfectly well that I can get away with either decision ... But I would like to know what is the correct decision .. as that's the one I will give , if I can.
 

Flish


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
1,543
Post Likes
357
Location
Durham
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
I don't think there is a 'correct' decision, when it gets complex you just have your decision having balanced everything up.

Eg yesterday, U17 game, challenges in the scrum with opposing FR, choose not to listen in terms of height and binding (both decide it's each others fault), that ends in some niggle, a warning, then handbags so 2x YC. I didn't want the first phase after they came back on to be another scrum and risk more aggro, so I tried to 'manage' the 7 minutes being up to better suit me. Ultimately I couldn't get away with it as crap conditions and scrums everywhere.

The by the book decision is bang on 7 minutes, but you might want to redefine 'correct' to suit!
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
I think that's a very very different scenario.

Even so, if it was me then when the time was up I would let them on .
 
Top