Yellow card after try, after time

[Camquin]

There was a question on the Rolling Maul forum, I was not at the game so do not know the specifics, but want to check my understanding.

Time had expired, green score a try, and the ref gave a yellow card to a blue player.
Green score the conversion.

If the card is for an offence before the try is scored, I think the ref should blow for no-side.
Scoring a try does not prevent the ref giving the yellow, but you would not restart with a penalty, so ball is dead, and we go for beers.

If the card is for foul play after the try is scored, I think you would restart with a penalty, so green should have a final play.

Am I correct?

 

[Harry]

I can't see equity in your version. The defending side could commit any offence to stop the attackers scoring.

Surely what the ref did was apply the advantage laws.

 

[didds]

i don't have an issue with that logic.

 

[Locke]

I agree that if the penalty was given for an offense after the try was scored, there should be a PK restart at the 50, even though time had expired.

 

[crossref]

If you restart, nothing good can happen for the ref after that ...
If you call no side I don't think the teams will dispute it ..

 

[Volun-selected]

I‘d only restart with a PK if the foul play happened after the try was scored and there was time left to play. If it happens in the 41st minute we restart the 2nd half with the PK. If it happens in the 81st then it’s game over after the try is attempted or declined.

Anything before the try is scored or in normal time then I’m treating the try as advantage being successfully utilized by green.

The YC would be issued the next ball dead.

 

[Locke]

If you restart, nothing good can happen for the ref after that ...
If you call no side I don't think the teams will dispute it ..

I‘d only restart with a PK if the foul play happened after the try was scored and there was time left to play. If it happens in the 41st minute we restart the 2nd half with the PK. If it happens in the 81st then it’s game over after the try is attempted or declined.

Anything before the try is scored or in normal time then I’m treating the try as advantage being successfully utilized by green.

The YC would be issued the next ball dead.

I think the law is clear.

5.7 A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:

b.The referee awards a free-kick or penalty

 

[didds]

I‘d only restart with a PK if the foul play happened after the try was scored and there was time left to play. If it happens in the 41st minute we restart the 2nd half with the PK.

does it ?
surely you'd continue the first half? In the same way that if instead of a score+ PK it was just a penalty on 41 minutes.

 

[Phil E]

If a try has been scored, even if the time has expired, surely the half isn't over until the conversion kick has been taken?

 

[DocP]

If the card is for an offence before the try is scored, I think the ref should blow for no-side.
Scoring a try does not prevent the ref giving the yellow, but you would not restart with a penalty, so ball is dead, and we go for beers.

If the card is for foul play after the try is scored, I think you would restart with a penalty, so green should have a final play.

I agree with this and is back up by law as @Locke shows above.

Pen/advantage before the try is scored - no side
Pen awarded after try is scored - restart with PK on halfway to non offending team. Time on the clock is not a factor

I have always wondered the scenario, Green loosing by 9 points to Blue. Green score under the posts on 81st min. Blue dive late on scorer after the whistle (or something similar) so Pen awarded to Green. Green take the the conversion successfully. They then successfully kick for goal at the pen on the half way mark to win the game by 1 point. I have no problem with this outcome.

I have a feeling something similar happend in our society region last season but I can't quite remember. I think the team kicked for touch rather than for goal and scored from the resulting lineout. All after time was in the red

 

[DocP]

If a try has been scored, even if the time has expired, surely the half isn't over until the conversion kick has been taken?

But if you don't restart with a Pk then you can't reward (I hate that term) the non offending team for foul play against them. That means there is no recompence for foul play after a try has been scored with the game in the red.

 

[Phil E]

But if you don't restart with a Pk then you can't reward (I hate that term) the non offending team for foul play against them. That means there is no recompence for foul play after a try has been scored with the game in the red.

I agree, I am saying that you can award the penalty restart, because you haven't blown for full time.

 

[crossref]

But if you don't restart with a Pk then you can't reward (I hate that term) the non offending team for foul play against them. That means there is no recompence for foul play after a try has been scored with the game in the red.

just being pragmatic -- let's think the scenarios through
a try has been scored after time has expired, and then Red commit foul play.

do blue really need to be 'rewarded' ?

Most likely the game is lost and won already, and really there's no upside in restarting (and a real danger of downside.. like a fight)

If you are really unlucky blue are losing by one point, and are desprately keen to restart, so in that scenario -- I guess, deep breath, talk to captains, here we go ...

 

[DocP]

just being pragmatic -- let's think the scenarios through
a try has been scored after time has expired, and then Red commit foul play.

do blue really need to be 'rewarded' ?

Most likely the game is lost and won already, and really there's no upside in restarting (and a real danger of downside.. like a fight)

If you are really unlucky blue are losing by one point, and are desprately keen to restart, so in that scenario -- I guess, deep breath, talk to captains, here we go ...

What about 4 try bonus point, or points difference. In the world of leagues that we now live in all these things have concequences. If the non-offending team are not bothered they can just tap and kick to touch. I think in this scenario you won't know all the factors that are happening off the pitch so you have to go with what is backed up by law and not make a judgement based on the situation you find yourself in. I personally would always restart with the pen and inform the captain that he can tap and kick to touch if he wants to end the game. Their choice then, not mine.

 

[Stu10]

What's this "no side" term being used?

 

[Balones]

What's this "no side" term being used?

It was until fairly recently the correct or usual term for time was up/end of game. Perhaps you’ve given your age away with this question? Not heard the term for some time.

 

[Stu10]

It was until fairly recently the correct or usual term for time was up/end of game. Perhaps you’ve given your age away with this question? Not heard the term for some time.

I started playing rugby in ~ 1980, but I have no memory of ever hearing this term before today.

 

[Balones]

I started playing rugby in ~ 1980, but I have no memory of ever hearing this term before today.

For some of us that’s fairly recent.

 

[crossref]

What about 4 try bonus point, or points difference. In the world of leagues that we now live in all these things have concequences.

yes, they might fit into the deep breath and here we go category.

. I personally would always restart with the pen and inform the captain that he can tap and kick to touch if he wants to end the game. Their choice then, not mine.

yep.. but let's say the score is 42 points to 5 (in either direction)
I'd just end the game

If you prolong it by restarting the game there is no upside to anyone.

but there is a possible downside -- you are naturally expecting Blue to tap and kick to touch to end the game -- but they decide they are going to play on in order to teach a lesson to Red#6 .

I hear what you ar saying, and technically correct. But also some pragmatism can be appropriate.

 

[didds]

yes, they might fit into the deep breath and here we go category.


yep.. but let's say the score is 42 points to 5 (in either direction)
I'd just end the game

If you prolong it by restarting the game there is no upside to anyone.

There may be for the side that is 37 points up.
they could extend that to 44 points up - for a better points difference in their league.

Or there may be for the team that is 37 points down
they could reduce that to 30 points down - for a better points difference in their league.