Brian Moore becomes a ref.

[The umpire]

Last week, U15s, the final part of my (very short) briefing to the whole team was that "the ball isn't out until its free and clear of the ruck/maul/pile of bodies, none of this 'two-hands-on' nonsense. Any other questions?"
First question was "When is the ball out, sir? Two hands on or what?"

 

[Agustin]

Last week, U15s, the final part of my (very short) briefing to the whole team was that "the ball isn't out until its free and clear of the ruck/maul/pile of bodies, none of this 'two-hands-on' nonsense. Any other questions?"
First question was "When is the ball out, sir? Two hands on or what?"

I think I've spotted your problem. You expected teenage rugby players to listen to what you say!

 

[The umpire]

Yeah, you'd think I'd have learned from experience with my own children, they don't listen to a word I say either!

 

[Ian_Cook]

I always regarded "out" as.....

► "the whole of the ball behind the hindmost foot" or in the absence of a "foot" any body part (arm, leg knee, back, head,....whatever)

or

► As soon as the player acting as SH has picked the ball up off the ground.

.....whichever happened first.

 

[Toby Warren]

Does it really matter what the ref. decides is out, provided that it is reasonable and consistantly applied all game?

 

[Deeps]

Does it really matter what the ref. decides is out, provided that it is reasonable and consistantly applied all game?

I would support that entirely on grounds of equity, good management and the fact that you will never get total agreement on here as to what constitutes the ball being 'out'. It's similar to the circular argument regarding what constitutes a forward pass.

I like the notion that there are 15 players in a team and that it is good if you can involve most of them for some of the time by giving the scrum half an opportunity to do his thing without constantly being scragged.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I would support that entirely on grounds of equity, good management and the fact that you will never get total agreement on here as to what constitutes the ball being 'out'. It's similar to the circular argument regarding what constitutes a forward pass.

I like the notion that there are 15 players in a team and that it is good if you can involve most of them for some of the time by giving the scrum half an opportunity to do his thing without constantly being scragged.

will you lot get out of the brian moore thread and start your own:Nerv:

 

[Deeps]

will you lot get out of the brian moore thread and start your own:Nerv:

I am sure that Brian Moore would agree with me that it is good if you can involve most of the 15 players in a team by giving the scrum half an opportunity to do his thing without constantly being scragged.

How's that?

 

[scrumpox2]

Does it really matter what the ref. decides is out, provided that it is reasonable and consistantly applied all game?

There's the crux of the issue that divides two camps ...
camp 1 - those who understand that they play the ref
camp 2 - those who are apoplectic about referee inconsistency from one game to another, from one week to the next.

I think I'm reasonable and consistent yet I'm aware that, as I tire, my decision-making at tackle and ruck time can become inaccurate, and therefore I can be inconsistent.

 

[SimonSmith]

I am sure that Brian Moore would agree with me that it is good if you can involve most of the 15 players in a team by giving the scrum half an opportunity to do his thing without constantly being scragged.

How's that?

Based on some of his commentary, that is questionable!!

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Brilliant Deeps:clap:

 

[Phil E]

Brilliant Deeps:clap:

Don't you mean, Brian Moore would have said "that was brilliant Deeps" ?

 

[gillburt]

I felt BCM's commentary today on the Eng game was one of his best efforts (not that I'm an expert in such matters). He said some supportive things about referees, worded his discontentment with certain aspects of the laws in a considered way and, best of all, said nothing when Eddie Butler asked him to speak about how quiet it the supporters were (which we couldn't tell because EB was too busy talking)

 

[SimonSmith]

Brian Moore - in danger of becoming a National Treasure

 

[chopper15]

Brian Moore - in danger of becoming a National Treasure

He deserves to be.:clap:

 

[bcm666]

I haven't gone through all the pages ion thread but would like to make a few points:

1. My intention was never to use this as a stunt; I don;t need to do things that way; anyone who knows me would not have even suggested this.

2. I realise some people are unhappy about the resources being devoted to me but referees in general got their cause highlighted.

3. My injury was a bad tear and when it heals I will ask for games to referee.

4. I couldn't care less about being given access to an inner sanctum here. I never say or write anything I will not say to some one's face.

5. I don;t see why even on here it is not acceptable to criticise fellow referees - what makes anyone exempt from this provided the criticism is accurate and not mere abuse.

 

[TheBFG]

All well said!

but you did look a bit of a prat in those leggings!:wink:

 

[barker14610]

Personally, I think what you did was great. I think if you read the whole thing you would see that as well. Good luck with your future matches.

 

[Adam]

I haven't gone through all the pages ion thread but would like to make a few points:

1. My intention was never to use this as a stunt; I don;t need to do things that way; anyone who knows me would not have even suggested this.

2. I realise some people are unhappy about the resources being devoted to me but referees in general got their cause highlighted.

3. My injury was a bad tear and when it heals I will ask for games to referee.

4. I couldn't care less about being given access to an inner sanctum here. I never say or write anything I will not say to some one's face.

5. I don;t see why even on here it is not acceptable to criticise fellow referees - what makes anyone exempt from this provided the criticism is accurate and not mere abuse.

I think a topic that generates 150+ posts is pretty good. I respect you more now for having gone through the ELRA, and who knows, you may enjoy it and continue to do it!

Oh, and I enjoy your commentaries a lot more now there is a wise head who can impart their knowledge of both playing and the Laws to the general viewer, enriching their viewing experience.

I thought your comment about when is the ball 'out' hit the nail on the head. We have debated this endlessly on here and I'm not quite sure we have totally agreed yet.

 

[Davet]

We tend to avoid criticising refs in public, in deference to RFU and iRB feelings.

The refs only "sanctum" would provide a more appropriate place.

But I for one commend your efforts, and respect the time and energy you are willing to devote to refereeing, and to understanding where we come from in a game.

When I played, I was often frustrated by the ref - when I reffed I was often irritated by players who clearly had no idea what they were doing. Having someone who is respected within the game making an effort to see the 31st player's viewpoint is refreshing.