Complaining about a Ref

[Simon Thomas]

That's very interesting, Simon , keep us up to date with the results

I like the idea of linking the feedback to the score, that's a problem in our society process, as we don't record scores in easyref but the marks on the cards are consistently better from the winning team

Our feedback marks are loaded up to easyref though , where the refs can see them. Not into spreadsheets .

I don't like the idea of having to hand my phone to a captain. It raises privacy issues on both sides, I don't want my phone in the hands of a group of bantering rugby players, and the capt probably doesn't want me hovering close , keeping phone in sight.

But testing will tell

I am sure Mark at WTR will communicate to his client Societies about progress, launch and availability.

As London use easyref you will not be using this WTR app, except for your SEG refs who do use WTR.

We have a spreadsheet system we use for MO Reports, Coaching Reports and Feedback Cards, developed over some years and it has lots of automatic macros to generate the reports, analysis, graphs, pivot tables etc. I will just import the WTR data instead of manually typing it in.

We have always had the home team, away team, match level and score on the manual cards anyway so no change there. I do all sorts of trend analysis about home compared to away, winning compared to losing, match level, clubs, etc as QA checks.

Yes privacy is an issue for some folks and we respect that so they can continue to use the printed cards. The phone is only given to skipper or coach not the whole group of players,and in my experiences they are pretty responsible guys usually.

 

[crossref]

I would have a hard time giving my phone to anyone -- sooner or later someone is going to think that it would be a good prank to run off with the ref's phone!
But that's probably just me - I actually think it's a good idea - if it works it's much potentially much more efficient.

Meanwhile back in LSRFUR our latest technological advance is that instead of bringing in, or posting cards, I can take a photo of the card with my phone and email it in. That's quick, simple and convenient.

 

[menace]

so we got the batman to full it in with straight As.

And tha barmaid was cat-woman??
Who was the joker?:biggrin:

 

[4eyesbetter]

My other sport has a system where we give postcards out. A lot of them get returned, but more than a few teams have said it'd be easier for them if we switched to online, including some who return every card they get.

 

[thepercy]

My society uses a form on our website:
http://nysrrs.net/feedback.html

When it is completed a copy gets emailed to the chair and vice chair. We use whos the ref for appointments, so there is a link at the bottom of the appointment email that the coaches get saying:

Let us know how we did. Please take a moment to fill out the Coaches Feedback form at: http://nysrrs.net/feedback.html

We don't get a lot of feedback but it's cheap (actually free) and simple.

The small amount of feedback we get is almost always negative.

 

[OB..]

We have given up using feedback forms from clubs. The value did not justify the cost.

 

[crossref]

We have given up using feedback forms from clubs. The value did not justify the cost.

What is the cost OB? for someone to transcribe? Or printing the cards?

For me the only value really is that it's a conversation device, i don't get much from the cards, but I do listen to what they say

 

[OB..]

What is the cost OB? for someone to transcribe? Or printing the cards?

We provided pre-paid post cards. The intention was that the clubs would fill them in and post them, thus preventing the referees from censoring them.

 

[Browner]

We provided pre-paid post cards. The intention was that the clubs would fill them in and post them, thus preventing the referees from censoring them.

With such little cost, I can only assume that the feedback 'value' was virtually non existent!

 

[OB..]

With such little cost, I can only assume that the feedback 'value' was virtually non existent!

I don't know what te total cost was, but more often than not th emakrings merely told you who won and who lost. All you can really expect to get out of this sort of system is an occsional indication of an unusually good or bad performance.

 

[crossref]

I don't know what te total cost was, but more often than not th emakrings merely told you who won and who lost. All you can really expect to get out of this sort of system is an occsional indication of an unusually good or bad performance.

that's interesting when compared to Simon's impressin that the data is worth spending considerable time analysing.
Seems like OB and Simon's societies are at the opposite ends of the spectrum here : with OB's abandoning feedback as not worthwhile, and Simon's, on the contrary, finding it useful enough to justify additional time and money.

My personal impression - based on my own cards! - is that the outlying cards seem to say more about the person filling it in than about me (my worst ever card came at a match last season where I was assesssed - and promoted. Similarly I have had bored captains who don't really want to particiapte merely dashing off a column of G to get rid of it), however looking across all cards, all games, there are some areas where my average score received is lower. So that's probably valid and to be worked on.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I don't know what te total cost was, but more often than not th emakrings merely told you who won and who lost. All you can really expect to get out of this sort of system is an occsional indication of an unusually good or bad performance.

that's interesting when compared to Simon's impressin that the data is worth spending considerable time analysing.
Seems like OB and Simon's societies are at the opposite ends of the spectrum here : with OB's abandoning feedback as not worthwhile, and Simon's, on the contrary, finding it useful enough to justify additional time and money.

My personal impression - based on my own cards! - is that the outlying cards seem to say more about the person filling it in than about me (my worst ever card came at a match last season where I was assesssed - and promoted. Similarly I have had bored captains who don't really want to particiapte merely dashing off a column of G to get rid of it), however looking across all cards, all games, there are some areas where my average score received is lower. So that's probably valid and to be worked on.

The analysis is done automatically so no time spent. The time is currently data input hence we are trying to get a significant % digital.

He analysis throws up trends and outliers (positive and negative), and also important supporting evidence to the MO assessment match reports and coaching updates for grading decisions especially at 10 down to post ELRA.

With 70 active members, 2,000 matches and 12 MOs / referee coaches we try to see every referee twice a season but the maths are against us.

As for costs - card printing and pre-paid postage were around £1,000 per season, so even the change to monthly meeting drop off / scan or photo by email of cards has been a big saving.

 

[OB..]

Our numbers are similar to Simon's, so I expect our costs were also similar.

At work we had an equivalent system for evaluating speakers at training sessions. The only value came from specific commments, and outliers if there were several of them.(One enthusiastic course organiser decided to send me the averages per lecture rather than the raw figures, which of course suppressed the outliers.)

 

[Browner]

I don't know what te total cost was, but more often than not th emakrings merely told you who won and who lost. All you can really expect to get out of this sort of system is an occsional indication of an unusually good or bad performance.

A friend of mine rang me on sunday afternoon complaining that the " referee ruined their game" that morning,

"How many did you lose by" .... was my reply

" who said we lost" .....he said

"You did" ....... I replied

"Eh.... Did I ? I don't remember telling you that " ...... He said

I couldn't wink down a phone line ... :-D

 

[Browner]

So, Garland demonstrates consistency ! When he's asking for uniformity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30069276

If his players could consistently operate within all Lawful actions then it would be a much easier job ( & i suspect its paid well below your earning level WG) ....