Drug testing at the community level

[Davet]

That is until Bob gets caught and he is banned.

If - not until - and without a serious testing programme he almost certainly won't be.

Especially if when the testers turn up Bob and Frank both quietly just disappear.

 

[didds]

Numbers aren't important, the threat should be enough.

but whjat is the realiostic thread? that your team, in your club, amongst thousands throughout the loand will be visited. And that even if that happened you would be one of the players asked to be tested?

Statistically remote enough to not be a concern to those that are prepared to lose their virility (steroids etc) etc already!

didds

 

[crossref]

I have been at 2 games when they have done drug testing, Both at lvl 2 and probably at least 8 years ago, The players had no probs with it but it did serve as a deterent!

Just for fun my 3 to be tested would be,

1, Crossref, what is he on?
2, Phil E, never understood northerners!
3, Andy pandy, why those stripey PJ's

ritalin epper: ritalin epper: ritalin epper: ritalin epper: ritalin epper: ritalin epper: ritalin epper:


At community level are performance enhancing drugs even illegal? Is there an RFU regulation that covers amateur game?

 

[andyscott]

No if a team turned up to a game 100% would be tested, all on the team sheet.

Why are you all so resistant? Do you support illegal drug use at the community level?

 

[Davet]

No - but personally I cannot see how an effective deterrent could be set up at an acceptable cost.

Not a matter of supporting illegal use of PE drugs - just an acceptance of the reality that there is no practical solution.




When I can't stop my fiddlin'
I just takes me Ritalin
I'm poppin' and sailin', man!

 

[didds]

If - not until - and without a serious testing programme he almost certainly won't be.

Especially if when the testers turn up Bob and Frank both quietly just disappear.

or thye week they turn up Bob happens (genuinely!) to not be playing cos his best mate is getting married etc.

didds

 

[didds]

No if a team turned up to a game 100% would be tested, all on the team sheet.

Why are you all so resistant? Do you support illegal drug use at the community level?

No.

I just think the costs of it to be done realistically would far outweigh any real benefit to the game. Because the costs involved - realistically - must come from within the game somehow, whether by raising some sort of levy on clubs = increased subs) or reduced handouts = increased subs).

How much clubs/players will really support paying out £X a year more to test somebody at L8 and then ban them, is open to debate.

make it no cost to players and realistic then yeah go ahead. No probs.

Meanwhile, should/do officials get tested OOI?

didds

 

[andyscott]

Meanwhile, should/do officials get tested OOI?

didds

I believe they should, not sure if they do.

Obviously not for alcohol in the SH

 

[didds]

I would add I can see it realitically being more feasible at "pro" and "semi-pro" levels... but the issue here is how/when/where do you define that? easy enough for levels 1 and 2... or the levels where the paperwork for professional players is filled in. But what about level 5... plenty of amateur players still there, and I would imagine (bit don;t klnow) generally more semi-pro. but whwere do you include the clubs that have a few players on £30 "expenses" - maybe even genuine expenses like a student returning home from uni to play ?

didds

 

[chbg]

The Army CDT team has tested specific sports event participants in the last 13 months, including all 300+ players at a rugby tournament. At the same time there was an education stand, as the aim was as equally to educate/deter as to catch. (Though it might be a cheap way to find redundancy 'volunteers'.) The specimens that were tested for steriods proved to be negative. However there were certainly a handful who admitted to taking steroids previously, through their rugby clubs. And we have had one fellow caught in routine work-place testing, who described in detail the cocktail of steriods taken whilst on the national 7s circuit. (However the RFU could not recognise the test result, so he lost his job, but not his rugby).
The IRB do have a education programme - Keep Rugby Clean. And the UK Anti-Doping message is "100% Me". Will that stop risk-takers? Of course not, but honest coaches and clubs should use the same messages.

 

[OB..]

The GRFU recently arranged a Drugs Awareness evening with RFU and police speakers, but was disappointed at the small number of clubs that turned up.

The emphasis is more on education than catching people. Much of the problem is things like players taking legal stuff, finding it helpful, so doubling the dose to a harmful level without realising the danger.

 

[ddjamo]

what the general public doesn't understand is that for endurance sports - taking testosterone or other forms of AAS will cause weight gain though holding water. there can be an increase in strength if the athlete can train hard in the gym - but no increase in endurance from the juice. recovery - maybe. so why would a player want more water weight, risk injury and slow his performance? a small dose of test may help recovery and keep you a bit more muscular but nothing noticeable. I honestly doubt a level 7 guys can juice it and change his game much. even if he does - he will have to do a lot of hard work in the gym - the drugs won't do it alone.

using AAS in the off season when the player can train with weights and eat properly - that's a different story...but in season - not a big deal.

this info is straight from my trainer who is a bodybuilder and very experienced in the area and trains athletes not bb'ers.

 

[Casey Bee]

what the general public doesn't understand is that for endurance sports - taking testosterone or other forms of AAS will cause weight gain though holding water. there can be an increase in strength if the athlete can train hard in the gym - but no increase in endurance from the juice. recovery - maybe. so why would a player want more water weight, risk injury and slow his performance? a small dose of test may help recovery and keep you a bit more muscular but nothing noticeable. I honestly doubt a level 7 guys can juice it and change his game much. even if he does - he will have to do a lot of hard work in the gym - the drugs won't do it alone.

using AAS in the off season when the player can train with weights and eat properly - that's a different story...but in season - not a big deal.

this info is straight from my trainer who is a bodybuilder and very experienced in the area and trains athletes not bb'ers.

I'm not for one moment trying to be controversial, however I do know of many L7 players who have indulged in the steroids scene. They were good players, ended up seriously well built, but then ended as acne ridden muscle bound animals who had no self control... where do you want rugby to develop to????

 

[Davet]

They were good players, ended up seriously well built, but then ended as acne ridden muscle bound animals who had no self control...

No.

I'm not going to indulge my first instinct to take the micky.

 

[ddjamo]

I'm not for one moment trying to be controversial, however I do know of many L7 players who have indulged in the steroids scene. They were good players, ended up seriously well built, but then ended as acne ridden muscle bound animals who had no self control... where do you want rugby to develop to????

that is hilarious. do you blame matches for arson? sounds to me that they were not all there in the first place.

many of my teammates used AAS for years and I never saw any of that.

 

[TigerCraig]

Even before worrying about cost and logistics, the question here is what do you test for?

Most players and probably most on here would fail an Olympic/professional sport drug test - but many drugs on that list aren't illegal

I've been on "steroids" - most of us have at some stage, maybe we didn't realise. Prescribed by a GP.

Similarly with pseudoephidrine. During winter, everyone who has a cough syrup or pill will test positive.

Again with diuretics.

 

[Dixie]

Should Officials be tested out of season?

I believe they should, not sure if they do.

I'm fascinated by the thinking, andyscott. Obviously, as a medical professional, you have a better insight into the harm caused by non-prescription drug abuse. But why on earth would you test officials to see whether they are trying to enhance their performance?

A player is seeking to gain an unfair advantage over his competitors - both those who compete for his place in the team, and those who play against him for other teams. That is a strong reason to make efforts to deter performance enhancement by drugs. But can that approach be applied to officials? They aren't cheating either team by being the best they can chemically be - quite the opposite. There is a valid point that they are denying a clean ref the opportunity of reffing at the higher level - but if so, that's a recognition that the objective to be sought is worse refereeing.

Is the desire for testing of officials motivated more by concern for those officials' health than by a reasoned argument that performance-enhanced officials are bad for the game?

 

[Pinky]

Dixie, I think the issue is that if drugs are banned from your sport (and there is testing for them) then including officials reinforces the sport's attitude to drugs.

Aside from that there is the competitive nature of refs Wouldn't want my failure to get on the IRB panel to be down to me being drug free and Messrs Barnes, Joubert etc all to be overperforming whilst off their faces on cold rememdies

 

[ddjamo]

you guys don't get it. the drugs don't make you better. they give you the ability to get better. if you don't train hard, eat right and stick to a very regimented program - you blow up with water and maybe gain some strength - period.

if wayne barnes ran a cycle of testosterone and deca (as an example since that's the normal stack for the avg athlete thinking he will get ahead) he would have a round moon face and more weight due to water. MAYBE a little better in recovery - that's it. he would need to train differently which he would have no reason to do.

the press has the public brainwashed.

additionally - there is a huge difference between hormone replacement therapy supervised by a doctor and steroid abuse. you all are confusing the two. HRT for a middle aged man just brings hormone levels back into the normal/high range which is proven to be of better value than to have declining/low levels.

 

[andyscott]

Dixie, I think the issue is that if drugs are banned from your sport (and there is testing for them) then including officials reinforces the sport's attitude to drugs.

Aside from that there is the competitive nature of refs Wouldn't want my failure to get on the IRB panel to be down to me being drug free and Messrs Barnes, Joubert etc all to be overperforming whilst off their faces on cold rememdies

Spot on.

Steroids are only one example, other performing enhancing banned substances are out there.