ebola virus & haka. Why is there no vaccine?

[crossref]

well I think that all unions, - and importantly the TV - actually do want a haka, so left to themselves they would sort something out.

And if sometimes they couldn't sort it out, well shrug, some games we wouldn't get a haka, it's not the end of the world.
Some times we don't get abseiling paratroopers, others we do.

Most games I reckon we actually would get a haka.

And allowing unions to arrange their own pre-game, free of IRB rulese would bring other compensations, like Waltzing Matilda.

 

[Ronald]

To me the haka is part of NZ rugby, and I enjoy watching it. The last 2 years I worked at Ellis Park for the SA vs NZ game, but always made sure of getting to my seat to see it...to me it adds to the spectacle and the drama.

 

[OB..]

Careful there Crucial!. Some posters here aren't really interested in hearing or learning the truth (as has been amply demonstrated so far). They are only interested in sniping, criticising and poking jibes at NZ culture.

PS: 45-10. A botty-smacking indeed.

See what I mean Crucial? There is no reasoning with ignorance!

Ian - please come down off your high horse and try talking to us as adults to adults.

 

[Browner]

Ian - please come down off your high horse and try talking to us as adults to adults.

Both Kiwi posters recognise the "Geeing up" advantage it brings, Due to the 'just before the whistle blows" timing currently enjoyed.
As such anything beyond the home Anthem being played second ( only because someone has to singvsecond) is inequitable.

Although it is interesting to witness, that yet 'again', .... Offer a different opinion & you soon become the target of derogatory name calling. You've called it exactly correct OB, well spotted.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ian - please come down off your high horse and try talking to us as adults to adults.

1. No high horses involved. Some of the comments here border on bigotry

2. I was talking to Crucial anyway.

 

[OB..]

1. No high horses involved. Some of the comments here border on bigotry

Your own sigblock suggests it is inappropriate to fight fire with fire.

2. I was talking to Crucial anyway.

This is an open forum and your comments will have been seen by the (unspecified) posters you were denigrating. It doesn't help your case.

In the early days AIUI the haka was only done overseas, and not at all games. Some early clips clearly show that however important the haka was to the Maori, the pakeha were not used to it.

In 1905 the Welsh decided to sing their anthem in response (apparently that was the first time any sort of anthem had been sung at a sporting event). By agreement this procedure was repeated, more formally, in 2005, but there was disagreement over what was to happen in 2006.

 

[menace]

I still think the best option would be for the All Blacks to perform Haka on the field in home matches (as of right). If the opposition don't wish to face it, fine, they perform it for the crowd to gee them up

For away matches the host union may invite them to perform it immediately before kick-off. If the host union don't wish to extend that invitation, or wish to mess around with it having it between anthems or at any time other than immediately prior to kick off, the the All Blacks respectfully decline the invitation, and then do what they did at Cardiff in 2006.

I'll put money on it that just about every host union will issue that invitation under those conditions.

Note that the WRU did not try to mess with the tradition in 2008, 2009, 2010 & 2012, lest they cop the ire of their own fans as they did in 2006. Lesson learned then!

Ian_c, for my benefit (as I may have missed it previously), but is there any reason the haka must, or is preferred to, be performed immediately before kick off? I understood it to signify a preparation for war? Would the haka traditionally be done 30 seconds before they chopped each other to pieces on the battle field? I also understand the haka can be a welcoming dance?
So what is the rugby haka, a welcoming or a war dance? Certainly if it is a welcoming dance then there is no need for it to be done 30sec before kickoff. If it's a war dance, then surely that out of touch with modern society trying to stop violence and things that promote violence.

I would free it up even more : let the home union organise the contents and running order of the pre game sequence exactly as they like.

I agree with Ian, i think other unions would almost all invite the AB to perform the haka. If the AB didn't like the timing of the haka, or any other detail about how it would be staged they would be free to decline.

I don't think the presence of irb setting haka rules is necessarily helpful in conflicts such as Wales v NZ in 2005/6, the irb have given teams rights and expectations they then feel they are entitled to I tend to think that the AB want to perform a haka, and all things considered other unions want to see a haka and , left entirely to themselves, a compromise would be found, but sequence of events and details of staging might vary between home and away games

That cannot happen, because the New Zealanders have the right to decide where in the running order the haka appears, and if they don't like where the host proposes to put it they will not perform it in public, even if it means that they perform it in the dressing room ages before the match starts.

It seems to be that many of us and perhaps even NZers see the rugby haka as merely a marketing tool and doesn't really hold any cultural significance to playing rugby?

If it was really of cultural significance then surely ABs wouldn't care where in the preface run down sheet they would appear to perform it? Of course within reason that it was 'close' to kickoff when the crowd was in.

 

[Dickie E]

So what is the rugby haka, a welcoming or a war dance?

That's the beauty of it. It can be anything that is most convenient at the time becasue only the inner sanctum can truly understand it.

 

[Daftmedic]

Mrs Daftmedic and I, are performing the haka at Twickenham next Saturday. We are doing a spirited patter cake patter cake bakers man for 80,000 people.:wow:

 

[Adam]

http://www.espn.co.uk/newzealand/rugby/story/246889.html

Sounds like even the All Blacks themselves were going to disrespect the haka...

 

[Dixie]

I've kept away from this thread for the first 110 posts, fearing it would end up exactly where it has. This issue pops up from time to time and, because of the very valid sensitivities on both sides, seems incapable of rational discussion. For the record, my view is as follows:

a) the haka is a wonderful tradition that should be retained as a public spectacle before NZ games.
b) equity therefore requires that island nations that also have haka traditions should also be able to perform their haka too
c) permitting any haka to be performed immediately before kickoff advantages the haka-performing side and disadvantages the opposition
d) all hakas should thus be performed before the anthems
e) apart from enforcing this timing protocol in the interests of equity, the iRB should butt out of attempting to control how the opposition receive the haka, with the exception of ensuring a minimum distance of 10m is retained between the performers and the recipients

 

[Browner]

"Rather than trying to replace Ka Mate Ka Mate, it was actually giving Ka Mate a brother so that on any given day we have got any option that we like," team manager Darren Shand said.
"We have a huge respect for Ka Mate because in New Zealand it is a national treasure. What you understand from the Maori people is that it is the culture they are giving us so we are hugely respectful of that. But having something of our own, that we have created for us is important for us."

Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/newzealand/rugby/story/246889.html#v7JOuSeOi7MzVocb.99

Case rests m'lud. :shrug:

 

[Browner]

I've kept away from this thread for the first 110 posts, fearing it would end up exactly where it has. This issue pops up from time to time and, because of the very valid sensitivities on both sides, seems incapable of rational discussion. For the record, my view is as follows:

a) the haka is a wonderful tradition that should be retained as a public spectacle before NZ games.
b) equity therefore requires that island nations that also have haka traditions should also be able to perform their haka too
c) permitting any haka to be performed immediately before kickoff advantages the haka-performing side and disadvantages the opposition
d) all hakas should thus be performed before the anthems
e) apart from enforcing this timing protocol in the interests of equity, the iRB should butt out of attempting to control how the opposition receive the haka, with the exception of ensuring a minimum distance of 10m is retained between the performers and the recipients

How's best ..............
Referee foam line?
Security men barrier?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Closed