ebola virus & haka. Why is there no vaccine?

[crossref]

Ian, I have no doubt that's what the Maori elders say, but that's not the way that the haka is now, in rugby.
Over the years various teams have responded to the haka in ingenious ways following their own sense of what is appropriate, and over the years the irb have banned everything, other than standing 20m away watching it respectfully.

I do wonder if it has had its day. Certainly if it is to endure I think it needs to be rebooted

 

[OB..]

In Cardiff in 2006 the Welsh said they would respond to the haka by singing a Welsh hymn after it. The All Blacks then decided they would do the haka in the dressing room. Apparently they felt they ought to be allowed to do it just before the kick-off. I wonder what the Maori elders thought of that?

Personally I am bored by it, so on 8 Novemebr at Twickenham I shall ignore it as usual. If anybody objects, I shall refer him to Ian's ex cathedra pronouncements.

 

[didds]

that's not rousing! its a dirge!

didds

 

[ChrisR]

OB, did the Welsh sing their hymn anyway? Too bad if they didn't.

I like the haka. I think that standing and accepting the challenge is an appropriate response.

 

[didds]

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

P

Ho ho. He's still there. Grant Batty - (#11, young uns). Still little. Still dirty. And still a twat!:biggrin:

 

[Ian_Cook]

All things evolve didds. It would be interesting to compare the game which followed THAT Haka with a modern test match

 

[menace]

please could we also insist that England has a rousing anthem?

Don't bother...IRB will not permit it.
Pre game preambles on wallabies home turf are not permitted to include our 'waltzing Matilda ' anthem as it does not hold enough 'cultural significance'. I know who'd I like to stuff in my 'Ol tucker bag!'

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ian, I have no doubt that's what the Maori elders say, but that's not the way that the haka is now, in rugby.
Over the years various teams have responded to the haka in ingenious ways following their own sense of what is appropriate, and over the years the irb have banned everything, other than standing 20m away watching it respectfully.

Then take that up with the iRB, not the All Blacks or the NZRU.

In the meantime, it not just players who peform Haka


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDaYWw68TXo

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

All things evolve didds. It would be interesting to compare the game which followed THAT Haka with a modern test match

I think you lost - assuming it's the Barbarians game from 1973 - so in that respect it bears no resemblance to modern games against the Barbarians or anyone else now I come to think of it.

Ohhhh! That fellow Edwards! :biggrin:

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Ali Williams and Hakas - he always liked getting nearest to the camera on the front row didn't he?

 

[Crucial]

In Cardiff in 2006 the Welsh said they would respond to the haka by singing a Welsh hymn after it. The All Blacks then decided they would do the haka in the dressing room. Apparently they felt they ought to be allowed to do it just before the kick-off. I wonder what the Maori elders thought of that?
.

Nothing to do with elders. At least get your facts correct.
In 2005 the WRU asked if they could do a crowd song after the haka to commemorate the centenary of tests between the two countries. They stated it was to be a one off break from tradition for a special game. The NZRU said 'no problem', traditions get broken for one offs.
When, in 2006, they declared they wanted the order of pre-match to be NZ National Anthem/ Haka/ Wales National Anthem the NZRU questioned why the change of normal protocols and (more importantly) 100 years of tradition. In the NZRUs view the whole thing would have looked like a farcical ploy to 'negate the haka' (as so many teams seem obsessed with). The WRU kept changing their reasoning for the change (and the failure to recognise the 'one-off' the year before) so the whole thing became a pissing contest.
The ABs aren't obliged to do the haka at all, but to do it as part of a convoluted pre-match jiggled around order would just open the gates for all sorts of stupid ideas in future matches to be negotiated.
The ABs do the haka as part tradition and part personal culture. If the tradition part was going to be taken away that left them with the personal part, which is what they did for themselves in the changing room. They invited cameras in so as to allow a degree of public access (as didpite all the whinging that gets heard, many people around the world actually want to see it as part of the spectacle).
The silly thing was that what started as a WRU idea to negate the haka had the opposite effect as this time the ABs did take it as a slight, not on their culture but on their long proud traditions, and used the changing room haka to get really fired up. They smashed the Welsh off the park.

 

[Dickie E]

Why don't they take their shirts off as per the 7s team?

 

[Crucial]

Why don't they take their shirts off as per the 7s team?

Probably because they are dressed before a game rather than getting undressed after one :chin:

 

[Ian_Cook]

Nothing to do with elders. At least get your facts correct.
In 2005 the WRU asked if they could do a crowd song after the haka to commemorate the centenary of tests between the two countries. They stated it was to be a one off break from tradition for a special game. The NZRU said 'no problem', traditions get broken for one offs.
When, in 2006, they declared they wanted the order of pre-match to be NZ National Anthem/ Haka/ Wales National Anthem the NZRU questioned why the change of normal protocols and (more importantly) 100 years of tradition. In the NZRUs view the whole thing would have looked like a farcical ploy to 'negate the haka' (as so many teams seem obsessed with). The WRU kept changing their reasoning for the change (and the failure to recognise the 'one-off' the year before) so the whole thing became a pissing contest.
The ABs aren't obliged to do the haka at all, but to do it as part of a convoluted pre-match jiggled around order would just open the gates for all sorts of stupid ideas in future matches to be negotiated.
The ABs do the haka as part tradition and part personal culture. If the tradition part was going to be taken away that left them with the personal part, which is what they did for themselves in the changing room. They invited cameras in so as to allow a degree of public access (as didpite all the whinging that gets heard, many people around the world actually want to see it as part of the spectacle).
The silly thing was that what started as a WRU idea to negate the haka had the opposite effect as this time the ABs did take it as a slight, not on their culture but on their long proud traditions, and used the changing room haka to get really fired up. They smashed the Welsh off the park.

Careful there Crucial!. Some posters here aren't really interested in hearing or learning the truth (as has been amply demonstrated so far). They are only interested in sniping, criticising and poking jibes at NZ culture.

PS: 45-10. A botty-smacking indeed.

 

[Browner]

Nothing to do with elders. At least get your facts correct.
In 2005 the WRU asked if they could do a crowd song after the haka to commemorate the centenary of tests between the two countries. They stated it was to be a one off break from tradition for a special game. The NZRU said 'no problem', traditions get broken for one offs.
When, in 2006, they declared they wanted the order of pre-match to be NZ National Anthem/ Haka/ Wales National Anthem the NZRU questioned why the change of normal protocols and (more importantly) 100 years of tradition. In the NZRUs view the whole thing would have looked like a farcical ploy to 'negate the haka' (as so many teams seem obsessed with). The WRU kept changing their reasoning for the change (and the failure to recognise the 'one-off' the year before) so the whole thing became a pissing contest.
The ABs aren't obliged to do the haka at all, but to do it as part of a convoluted pre-match jiggled around order would just open the gates for all sorts of stupid ideas in future matches to be negotiated.
The ABs do the haka as part tradition and part personal culture. If the tradition part was going to be taken away that left them with the personal part, which is what they did for themselves in the changing room. They invited cameras in so as to allow a degree of public access (as didpite all the whinging that gets heard, many people around the world actually want to see it as part of the spectacle).
The silly thing was that what started as a WRU idea to negate the haka had the opposite effect as this time the ABs did take it as a slight, not on their culture but on their long proud traditions, and used the changing room haka to get really fired up. They smashed the Welsh off the park.

If its not considered an adrenaline fueling, then why oh why would NZ resist it being negated ? The fact that they will fight tooth and nail to hold onto the last word in the pre-kick off stirring ..tells you everything you need to know.

Other sports have recently started this hakaitus ' tradition' .....so with that longevity in mind, about time a new tradition was started , the tradition of no war dance challenges before kick off.

Kamate zzzzzzz kamate zzzzzzz snore-a

 

[Ian_Cook]

If its not considered an adrenaline fueling, then why oh why would NZ resist it being negated ? The fact that they will fight tooth and nail to hold onto the last word in the pre-kick off stirring ..tells you everything you need to know.

Other sports have recently started this hakaitus ' tradition' .....so with that longevity in mind, about time a new tradition was started , the tradition of no war dance challenges before kick off.

Kamate zzzzzzz kamate zzzzzzz snore-a

See what I mean Crucial? There is no reasoning with ignorance!

 

[Ian_Cook]

I still think the best option would be for the All Blacks to perform Haka on the field in home matches (as of right). If the opposition don't wish to face it, fine, they perform it for the crowd to gee them up

For away matches the host union may invite them to perform it immediately before kick-off. If the host union don't wish to extend that invitation, or wish to mess around with it having it between anthems or at any time other than immediately prior to kick off, the the All Blacks respectfully decline the invitation, and then do what they did at Cardiff in 2006.

I'll put money on it that just about every host union will issue that invitation under those conditions.

Note that the WRU did not try to mess with the tradition in 2008, 2009, 2010 & 2012, lest they cop the ire of their own fans as they did in 2006. Lesson learned then!

 

[crossref]

I would free it up even more : let the home union organise the contents and running order of the pre game sequence exactly as they like.

I agree with Ian, i think other unions would almost all invite the AB to perform the haka. If the AB didn't like the timing of the haka, or any other detail about how it would be staged they would be free to decline.

I don't think the presence of irb setting haka rules is necessarily helpful in conflicts such as Wales v NZ in 2005/6, the irb have given teams rights and expectations they then feel they are entitled to I tend to think that the AB want to perform a haka, and all things considered other unions want to see a haka and , left entirely to themselves, a compromise would be found, but sequence of events and details of staging might vary between home and away games

 

[RobLev]

I would free it up even more : let the home union organise the contents and running order of the pre game sequence exactly as they like.

I agree with Ian, i think other unions would almost all invite the AB to perform the haka. If the AB didn't like the timing of the haka, or any other detail about how it would be staged they would be free to decline.

I don't think the presence of irb setting haka rules is necessarily helpful in conflicts such as Wales v NZ in 2005/6, the irb have given teams rights and expectations they then feel they are entitled to I tend to think that the AB want to perform a haka, and all things considered other unions want to see a haka and , left entirely to themselves, a compromise would be found, but sequence of events and details of staging might vary between home and away games

That cannot happen, because the New Zealanders have the right to decide where in the running order the haka appears, and if they don't like where the host proposes to put it they will not perform it in public, even if it means that they perform it in the dressing room ages before the match starts.