England v France

didds

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Why is it not normally called?
Is it because it rarely happens, or because referees fail to penalize it to keep the game flowing, or some other reason?

In general the player on their feet has the rights, so going off you feet to prevent a player on their feet playing the ball is dubious.
In open play you can do it, provided you play the ball immediately.

well wood certainly played it immediately. And I honestly don;t recall it being pinged in 40 years of watching etc.

all he did was tidy up a ball on the floor and certainly didnt prevent it coming out - it has already been called "ball out". Wood didn't prevent a blue player from playing it any more than he would have done had the ball been spilled (backwards!) in the centres 20 meters away.

didds

- - - Updated - - -

I actually penalised a player yesterday for this.

had you called ball out first?

didds
 

didds

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Same here. Came across as very confident.


At 33 mins 40 secs I think. I know there's been chat about this before, but I still reckon penalising that was wrong.

16.4 Other ruck offences
(e) A player must not fall on or over the ball as it is coming out of a ruck.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Is a ball that has clearly left a ruck (and called out IIRC) the same as a ball "coming out" of a ruck? I would say no, but I know others disagree.

changing the tack on this maybe... how far away is "out " if no to no longer be "coming out of a ruck? 1m ? 5m ? 10?

didds
 

OB..


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changing the tack on this maybe... how far away is "out " if no to no longer be "coming out of a ruck? 1m ? 5m ? 10?

didds
As I said in my #12, I think this is a bit of law left over from a different era. There is no longer a need for it.

If you must have measurements I think the most sensible is to use the definition of "near" ie 1 metre, but TBH I think we should be ignoring it.
 

didds

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As I said in my #12, I think this is a bit of law left over from a different era. There is no longer a need for it.

If you must have measurements I think the most sensible is to use the definition of "near" ie 1 metre, but TBH I think we should be ignoring it.

so why didn't the ref in EvF ? brain fart?

I don't disagree with what you say OB either.
 
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The Fat


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You can only physically fall on a ball that is out of a ruck. If you fall on it while it is in the ruck, you are basically falling onto the ruck and would be offside if the ball was on the oppo's side of the ruck.
So I suppose the ball has to be out for you to fall only on the ball. The question now would be, how far out constitutes "emerging" and how far out constitutes "general play"?
I have a feeling that, technically, AG may have got the decision right.
 
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L'irlandais

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I appreciate I have white tinted glasses, but I must say I agree with CR. It was more of a twist on the tackle than a lift, the player was almost horizontal to start with and I thought it harsh let alone stupid. Hey ho. I'm not an international ref.

didds
Wouldn't that be rose tinted glasses?
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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changing the tack on this maybe... how far away is "out " if no to no longer be "coming out of a ruck? 1m ? 5m ? 10?

didds

coming out of ruck , the ball is still in and cannot been dove upon

out of ruck, (aka as bird can shat upon) on side players have to be permitted to dive upon particularly when it is near in goal or in
 

Taff


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changing the tack on this maybe... how far away is "out " if no to no longer be "coming out of a ruck? 1m ? 5m ? 10?
When is the ball out of a ruck? The imaginary rubber band works for me.
 

Ian_Cook


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changing the tack on this maybe... how far away is "out " if no to no longer be "coming out of a ruck? 1m ? 5m ? 10?

didds

Its the old argument; what does "emerging" mean. That is a term also used in the Laws.

I wonder how the game would look if we encouraged players to be ready to pounce, and fall on the ball the moment it comes out of a ruck. Ask yourself if that is how would the game to be; and be careful what you wish for, you might not like what you get!!!
 
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didds

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The ball was demonstrably out of the ruck - AG had himself said so. So week outside of any rustic bands and available to be shaft on.

Didds
 

crossref


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That is clearly not true.

I think it clearly is true!
To lift something I think you have to raise its centre of gravity. I don't think you can lift a person by one leg (unless the person is cooperating , gymnastically of course).
Pull up one leg and you don't lift a person, you just topple them over
 

DocY


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The ball was demonstrably out of the ruck - AG had himself said so. So week outside of any rustic bands and available to be shaft on.

Didds

I always thought, perhaps wrongly, that 'emerging' was a reference to distance, rather than time, and the ball should be a meter away before someone can dive upon it.

As Ian says, encouraging players to dive onto the ball when it's very close to the ruck isn't going to end well and this is what this law prevents.

That said, this case was complicated by another player (Haskell?) trying to pick the ball up (legally) and knocking it back before Wood dived on it. I can see a case for saying that the no diving law no longer applied because of the first intervention.
 

Phil E


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May actually got off lightly as once you decide to penalise and got down the route of a dangerous tackle, the player landing on his head leads to RC not YC.

He didn't land on his head.

He landed on his side and shoulder, the force of landing then meant his head swung sideways and bounced off the turf.

Did his head hit the floor? Yes.
Did he land on his head? No.
 

Phil E


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Ball coming out of the ruck call was technically correct.
But fails the clear, obvious and expected test.
 

FlipFlop


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For me AG didn't help the game (at best) and hindered it (at worst).

The end of the game decision (ending on a PK) - was wrong in law, and a good reflection of the game from him.

The ball out of ruck - White #8 (?) had asked if it was out, told yes, he plays it, and knocks it backwards. It hits a blue player (I think), and then Wood dives on it. Not sure how a ball that has been played by 2 other people out of the ruck, is still emerging. Or even how White #8 could get to an emerging ball in the first place. It looked wrong to call, and he lost what ever credibility he still had. The best question to ask is - did he have to blow the whistle, or would both sides accept play on? I think they would have done, so play on. Let the players play.

There was a maul at one point which went to ground, that he called a tackle (and it was clearly a maul, and had been a for long enough).

The talk to the hookers was not professional enough, and showed he was frustrated.

Various other times, he seemed to be blowing offences that, while technically correct, were not material. (1 that springs to mind is When England attacking try line, Wood goes to clear out, and falls off feet, so does go to ground, but ball is away before a French player gets close. In fact the French player Wood is trying to clear out, has stepped away from the tackle, to defend the next phase.)

And yes - I only mention things against England, but that is because what I recall. I do also recall thinking at the time that Eng were luck to get some of the PKs they got.

Didn't help that the players didn't know what AG was going to call, or not.

But I have seen him before, and would put this down as a bad day at the office, and and only marginally worse than a good day from Clancy or Lacey
 

Camquin

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It is against the laws.
It was clear and obvious.
So why is it not expected?

or conversely

If we have decided we want to permit this, why is it still in the laws?
 

Paule23


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It is against the laws.
It was clear and obvious.
So why is it not expected?

or conversely

If we have decided we want to permit this, why is it still in the laws?

what incident are you referring to Camquin?
 
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