Footage of Leicester v Northampton red cards??

[SimonSmith]

It took me several replays to try to see what was going on - and even then I think I'd have RCed Tuilagi if I'd been refereeing.

We assume the hair pull was missed.
That angle on Tuilagi makes him the instigator, with more than one swing; given Ashton's body position, it will look like head shots.

The benefits of replay and better angles....

And yes, for my money, the management of the aftermath was exemplary.

 

[Bryan]

Now I've just seen a bit which I missed before

Wayne Barnes said to the Leicester Captain.

"This player (pointing to Tuilagi) punching several times to the head (of) white 14"

Now sorry all you WB sycophants, but this is complete bullshit!

:shrug:I dont see this as bullshitting (aka weaseling), but rather that from his view that's what he saw. I had to focus on Tuilagi specifically the 2nd time around to see whether the 2nd blow was actually any sort of punch, and even then I felt he drives (pushes) up into Ashton's face. With the shit hitting the fan by this point, I see this as generic a response as I'd expect, but I'd probably have told the Leicester captain "repeatedly striking another player", but that's me being a weasel.

You're going over the top with these rants about "To all you blah blah blah"; I'm quick to throw any referee under the bus (including yours truly) when we have a howler (Ref: Bryce in the Lions tour). I dont see that being made in this case. Just b/c we dont agree doesnt make us ****in' pariahs for the other team. It's like sometimes the switch goes off and you roll from zero to asshat in one post.

As for Ashton - Red Card offence all the way, and if seen by WB pretty sure he would have not hesitated. I think his AR let him down and should have been focused on the contact area and so seen the hair pull.

I disagree here on the AR involvement; I think Leicester #14 gets between the AR and Tuilagi/Ashton before it becomes clear and obvious that Ashton grabs his hair. The AR isnt in a poor position; the camera just gives us the angle that he would never see by being further off the touchline.

It took me several replays to try to see what was going on - and even then I think I'd have RCed Tuilagi if I'd been refereeing.

We assume the hair pull was missed.
That angle on Tuilagi makes him the instigator, with more than one swing; given Ashton's body position, it will look like head shots.

The benefits of replay and better angles....

And yes, for my money, the management of the aftermath was exemplary.

1. I have no doubt that the Team-of-3 knew something sparked off Tuilagi, but they also knew that none of them had seen it (note that the final AR keeps mum on anything as by this point we're at 2 red cards and I dont think he can add anything else here).

2. Murphy is in full-acceptance of Tuilagi's sending off as he knows there's another to come for Northampton (and probably b/c he feels a bit let off the hook).

The only other person I'd cite here in Ashton. Even Murphy, with those two haymakers at the end, would be hard pressed as the video doesnt show what the heck he's hitting, whether he's successful, and the argument of "well it was just pushing and there was no contact" would probably hold up i.e. not enough video evidence from the CO on this one (though if he did land a couple at the end, there seems to be no reaction from anyone!).

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ian we all, EXCEPT YOU, saw Tuilagi throw more than one punch at Ashton. His inability to punch properly meant he missed. Why do you think other refs on here saw the punches where as you (a NZ'der) did not?

Sorry Pal, but I might be in a minority, but it is NOT a minority of one!

I also don't really give a fat rats arse what Barnes thought he saw, I'm only really interested in what ACTUALLY HAPPENED!

Unusually, I agree completely with the two commentators on this video (and Richard Cockerill) that Tuilagi didn't land a single punch, and that the TO3 got this completely wrong.

From 0:12 into the video, Tulagi's arms are TRAPPED; they are either pinned by other players, or one or both are holding onto the railing. I can see that clearly, and the commentators can see that clearly, and that is why they said so. Only someone with a severe case of selective blindness can miss seeing his arms on the video and that they are not making any movement that could be mistaken as punches.

Barnes' assertion that Tuilagi punched Ashton "several times in the head" is complete and utter bollocks! This...never...happened!!!

If that was me refereeing, and I had said and done what Barnes has, and then I had seen this video, I would be ashamed and embarrassed. I would feel that I owed Tuilagi an apology!

I can think of 2007 (and a quarter) reasons why that might be were you not a referee. But as a ref I know that you'd not stoop to that.

Contemptible comment and will be treated as such.



EDIT:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby...to_face_rfu_over_clash_with_tuilagi_1_1991659

No other citings, though, have emanated from the Northampton versus Leicester incident despite several players from both sides being involved.

What the hell is this citing commissioner thinking?

How could he not see the Leicester 15 throwing, and connecting, "several"/"numerous" punches. If anyone on the Leicester side deserved a RC it was him.

 

[FKlopper]

Northampton Saints wing Chris Ashton banned for four weeks for act contrary to good sportsmanship against Alesana Tuilagi.

https://twitter.com/#!/Official_RFU/status/144122773428637696

 

[Toby Warren]

Is that not what Manu got for his punch on Ashton?

 

[FKlopper]

He got 10 weeks with 50% mitigation so served a 5 week ban.

 

[dave_clark]

i stand corrected - clearly it was worthy of a red card.

 

[Bryan]

How could he not see the Leicester 15 throwing, and connecting, "several"/"numerous" punches. If anyone on the Leicester side deserved a RC it was him.

From that RugbyDump video, I didnt see the connecting. Yes, Murphy throws two good haymakers, but I didnt see them hit anyone.

I dont disagree that he probably did something worthy of red-carded ness, but I dont think there was enough video evidence to tip the balance towards a guilty plea/verdict.

 

[collybs]

Northampton Saints wing Chris Ashton banned for four weeks for act contrary to good sportsmanship against Alesana Tuilagi.

https://twitter.com/#!/Official_RFU/status/144122773428637696

Tuilagi & Wood no ban - red card sufficient punishment

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16042053.stm

 

[Ian_Cook]

Tuilagi & Wood no ban - red card sufficient punishment

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16042053.stm

My opinion is now vindicated!!

If there had been several/numerous punches to Ashton's head, as Barnes had said, then Tuilagi WOULD have been banned.

This decision makes it clear that his offence would not have even met the low end entry criteria, and therefore he would not have been cited, had it not been for the red card!

 

[Ian_Cook]

And now to lighten the tone with some humour

Ashton, 24, was found guilty of pulling Alesana Tuilagi by his hair and dragging him from the field of play during the Aviva Premiership match against Leicester Tigers at Welford Road on Saturday, December 3.
The Saints wing, who denied the offence, was suspended from December 7 to January 3 by an RFU Disciplinary Panel of His Honour Judge Jeff Blackett (chair), Jeremy Summers and Christopher Quinlan QC in the Offices of the Judge Advocate General in the Royal Courts of Justice, London. He can play again on January 4.

How can he deny he pulled Tuilagi into touch by his hair?

What did he think he was pulling Tuilagi off the fireld with, a tractor beam???

I guess that's someone else who can't understand what he sees on video :biggrin::booty:

 

[Account Deleted]

Contemptible comment and will be treated as such.

Your accusations as to the comment of other refs on here can be treated as such! Again YOU overstep the line. It is very sad. How many on here are agreeing with your take on things?

 

[Account Deleted]

My opinion is now vindicated!!

If there had been several/numerous punches to Ashton's head, as Barnes had said, then Tuilagi WOULD have been banned.

This decision makes it clear that his offence would not have even met the low end entry criteria, and therefore he would not have been cited, had it not been for the red card!

That is not true.A sending off can be deemed sufficient punishment especially if the actions of Ashton were taken into account. It would be interesting to see the actual DC report.

 

[dave_clark]

indeed, specifically how a hair pull can get a longer ban than tip tackles or punches. looking forward to this report!

 

[Ian_Cook]

How many on here are agreeing with your take on things?

Not many, but you don't have to be in the majority to be right. Opinion is not a democracy.

I know what saw, and it would seem Judge Blackett saw the same thing...that Tuilagi did NOT, repeat NOT strike Ashton with numerous/several punches to the head.

You and I and everyone else on this forum know perfectly well that if Blackett had thought the video bore out the statement that Barnes made to the Leicester captain when he was sending Tuilagi off....

"This player (pointing to Tuilagi) punching several times to the head (of) white 14"

... then Tuilagi would have been suspended for a few weeks at least.

 

[Account Deleted]

True a very small minority can be right. However, when I consider the people who are holding those opinions and the baggage they carry, I'm happy that "your" minority is in error. It's a fairly good sign when a person resorts to arguing the toss of the wording selected during the game as opposed to the "meaning" behind the words. Also you, nor I, have any idea what wording was in the report or the ref or the AR.

The DC considered that the red card was sufficient. Their reasons will be in their report. I suggest you wait to read it.

 

[Ian_Cook]

True a very small minority can be right. However, when I consider the people who are holding those opinions and the baggage they carry, I'm happy that "your" minority is in error. It's a fairly good sign when a person resorts to arguing the toss of the wording selected during the game as opposed to the "meaning" behind the words. Also you, nor I, have any idea what wording was in the report or the ref or the AR. The DC considered that the red card was sufficient. Their reasons will be in their report. I suggest you wait to read it.

I see,so you are are happy that you can see Tuilagi punch Ashton several times in the head? OK, I have no problem with that, if that is what you wish to believe...... Alice.:smile:

 

[Robert Burns]

Calm down peeps, it's just a citing.

However, I'm very pleased to see Chris Ashton get a got few weeks, and hopefully now his coach will give him the kicking he needs.

 

[Account Deleted]

I see,so you are are happy that you can see Tuilagi punch Ashton several times in the head? OK, I have no problem with that, if that is what you wish to believe...... Alice.:smile:

I see two punches attempted by Tuilagi. Personally that classes as a "couple" I have no problem with others using differing terminology. It is not what I "wish to believe". It is what I saw. I disagree with you. I'm sorry that you have such a problem with being disagreed with such that you need to throw silly and childish comments. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Sorry if this is already posted - I can't be arsed trawling through.

4 week ban for Ashton