IRB dispenses with Yes 9

[Dave Sherwin]

So, as predicted formal release from IRB dispensing with Yes 9. Any ideas on what constitutes non-verbal communication?

From: <irb@irb.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:18:46 +0000
To: <[redacted]>
ReplyTo: <james.fitzgerald@irb.com>
Subject: IRB Media Release: IRB Further Empowers Referees at Scrums

	[url]www.irb.com[/URL]	7 January 2014
	IRB MEDIA RELEASE	Twitter alerts @IRBMedia
	IRB Further Empowers Referees at Scrums In a minor revision to the current protocol surrounding the ongoing scrum engagement global trial, the International Rugby Board has confirmed that referees will use non-verbal communication to indicate to the scrum-half when the ball can be thrown into the scrum. Up to now as part of the scrum trial, the referee has told the scrum-half that the scrum is ready for the put-in by the use of the phrase “yes nine”. But following an initial review, including consultation with national coaches and referee managers, it has been decided that referees will adopt a non-verbal communication to scrum-halves for the introduction of the ball. This is in accordance with the relevant law (20.5 Throwing the Ball Into the Scrum). The change is effective immediately and will include this week’s Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup matches in the northern hemisphere (January 9-12). It will also include the next rounds of other elite competitions, including the Top 14 in France (January 24), Aviva Premiership in England (February 7-9) and the Rabo Direct Pro 12 in other parts of Europe (February 7-9). As with the original protocol, it is up to individual Unions to decide whether this change will be adopted at levels below elite Rugby. Further information: James Fitzgerald, IRB Media Manager, +353 86 1723 570, email james.fitzgerald@irb.com Related Items/Links IRB website Unsubscribe

 

[crossref]

here's the public version

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediaz...952.html#irb+further+empowers+referees+scrums

NB -

As with the original protocol, it is up to individual Unions to decide whether this change will be adopted at levels below elite Rugby.

 

[Chogan]

I think it's a good idea but I just know it's gonna be a pain in the arse come Saturday.
Fine at elite level but the majority of spectators, coaches and players are gonna overlook the fact that at amateur level it's up to the governing unions or societies to implement it.

 

[crossref]

they say that

In a minor revision to the current protocol surrounding the ongoing scrum engagement global trial

but it's funny as saying 'yes-9' is not even in the IRB protocol

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?domain=11&amendment=21

 

[Taff]

As with the original protocol, it is up to individual Unions to decide whether this change will be adopted at levels below elite Rugby.

Yesterday it was "at all levels".

So it's business as usual with CBSY9&S until we get told differently by our society or the WRU then.

 

[crossref]

As with the original protocol, it is up to individual Unions to decide whether this change will be adopted at levels below elite Rugby.

Yesterday it was "at all levels".

So it's business as usual with CBSY9&S until we get told differently by our society or the WRU then.

yesterday's announcement was on planet rugby, today is the IRB.
we have a society meeting on Thursday, so no doubt this will be mentioned!

 

[Account Deleted]

I don't see the problem. At my level I do nothing different until my society or the WRU tells me. The PMB tells the players what to expect during the game. The Spectators are secondary.

As per the other thread on "yes 9", the ref and the SHs will agree on a signal. So it's up to you.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Any ideas on what constitutes non-verbal communication?

I do believe the standard is, "wink, wink, nudge, nudge".

Know what I mean

 

[ChrisR]

This is in accordance with the relevant law (20.5 Throwing the Ball Into the Scrum).

Not exactly!

From the IRB site: Law 20.5 "No Delay. As soon as the front rows have come together, the scrum half must throw in the ball without delay. The scrum half must throw in the ball when told to do so by the referee. The scrum half must throw in the ball from the side of the scrum first chosen."

20.5 Needs an update.

- - - Updated - - -

This is in accordance with the relevant law (20.5 Throwing the Ball Into the Scrum).

Not exactly!

From the IRB site: Law 20.5 "No Delay. As soon as the front rows have come together, the scrum half must throw in the ball without delay. The scrum half must throw in the ball when told to do so by the referee. The scrum half must throw in the ball from the side of the scrum first chosen."

20.5 Needs an update.

 

[crossref]

indeed, it's the opposite of the first sentence (and in line with the second).
But this is a trial, by defintion a trial of new Laws will contrary to the current Laws. It's just odd for the IRB to say otherwise.

 

[ChrisR]

The second sentence isn't correct either if the purpose of the law trial is to delay the put-in until permitted by the referee. Very different from "told to do so".

This allows timing discretion on behalf of the SH and by varying the feed it can negate the early shove. However, if the referee demands an immediate feed we'll be back to square one with an early shove.

As OB said teams will always try to use the laws, and how they are applied, to their advantage. It's not cheating or gaming the referee to keep your opponent off balance.

 

[crossref]

i guess it doesn't really matter what the Law says, as we are trialling something different.
hopefully when the Trial ends they'll revise the Lawbook appropriately. I imagine there'll be a 2015 Law Book for the RWC, with no ongoing trials.

 

[The Fat]

So glad you guys up north get to play around with this one well before our season starts.
Ref will need more than one form of non-verbal communication at scrum time. One for when he is on the feeding side (eg: tap on SH's back) and one for when he stands on the other side of the scrum (eg: head nod).
Personally, I think it will create square/stable problems again but will wait and see how the elite refs go in the NH next week.

 

[andyscott]

Never touch the 9.

Simple just stay at the tunnel "in the way" until its square and steady then move and in comes the ball.

 

[crossref]

Never touch the 9.

Simple just stay at the tunnel "in the way" until its square and steady then move and in comes the ball.

If we have to be non-verabal that's also my inclination.

 

[TheBFG]

but the FR will be able to see your feet and the moment you step away the pushing will start :chin:

I've been favouring the nod (when on the other side) and a quiet yes 9 when stood behind or to the side of the SH for a while now, not for any particular reason, just a case that i was aware that sides were "reacting" to the "yes 9" not necesarily enough to call it or reset it.

 

[crossref]

but the FR will be able to see your feet and the moment you step away the pushing will start :chin:

I've been favouring the nod (when on the other side) and a quiet yes 9 when stood behind or to the side of the SH for a while now, not for any particular reason, just a case that i was aware that sides were "reacting" to the "yes 9" not necesarily enough to call it or reset it.

the IRB protocol seems to say that ONLY non-verbal will be used.
at grassroots, perhaps the advice will be 'verbal or non-verbal, either is OK' if so , if verbal is allowed, I would follow your procedure.

 

[Womble]

Just had the email from RFU it's happening in England

 

[Phil E]

Just had the email from RFU it's happening in England

Me too.

This is from the RFU to all Societies. We will be diseminating it to our members.

IRB SCRUM DIRECTIVE

In a minor revision to the current protocol surrounding the on-going scrum engagement global trial, the International Rugby Board has confirmed that referees will use non-verbal communication to indicate to the scrum half when the ball can be thrown into the scrum.

Up to now as part of the scrum trial, the referee has told the scrum half that the scrum is ready for the put-in by the use of the phrase “yes nine”. But following an initial review, including consultation with national coaches and referee managers, it has been decided that referees will adopt a non-verbal communication to scrum-halves for the introduction of the ball in accordance with the relevant law (20.5 Throwing the Ball Into the Scrum).

With the new procedure now the verbal “Yes 9” has been dropped:

If the 9 is on the far side of the scrum the referee will raise his hand and nod his head in a yes motion when he believes that there is sufficient stability for the ball to be put in.

If the 9 is on the putting in side he will give the 9 a tap on the back when he believes that there is sufficient stability for the ball to be put in

Referees need to continue to referee all of the other elements of the scrum trial including: pushing BEFORE the ball is introduced to the scrum by the 9 and clear and obvious put-ins that are not straight.

 

[crossref]

but the FR will be able to see your feet and the moment you step away the pushing will start :chin:

I've been favouring the nod (when on the other side) and a quiet yes 9 when stood behind or to the side of the SH for a while now, not for any particular reason, just a case that i was aware that sides were "reacting" to the "yes 9" not necesarily enough to call it or reset it.

well, reading the RFU directive, you're going to have to change.