IRB dispenses with Yes 9

[crossref]

Me too.

This is from the RFU to all Societies. We will be diseminating it to our members.

IRB SCRUM DIRECTIVE

In a minor revision to the current protocol surrounding the on-going scrum engagement global trial, the International Rugby Board has confirmed that referees will use non-verbal communication to indicate to the scrum half when the ball can be thrown into the scrum.

Up to now as part of the scrum trial, the referee has told the scrum half that the scrum is ready for the put-in by the use of the phrase “yes nine”. But following an initial review, including consultation with national coaches and referee managers, it has been decided that referees will adopt a non-verbal communication to scrum-halves for the introduction of the ball in accordance with the relevant law (20.5 Throwing the Ball Into the Scrum).

With the new procedure now the verbal “Yes 9” has been dropped:

If the 9 is on the far side of the scrum the referee will raise his hand and nod his head in a yes motion when he believes that there is sufficient stability for the ball to be put in.

If the 9 is on the putting in side he will give the 9 a tap on the back when he believes that there is sufficient stability for the ball to be put in

Referees need to continue to referee all of the other elements of the scrum trial including: pushing BEFORE the ball is introduced to the scrum by the 9 and clear and obvious put-ins that are not straight.

does the email specify that this applies also to age-group rugby? That's kind of important before I tell my club refs.

well, it's important to me, I am reffing a u13 game on sunday....

 

[crossref]

when we give the non-verbal cue, what happens if the the opposing scrum half immediately shouts 'TAP' so that his pack can anticipate the put in.

Sigh, I really think it was better when they conducted trials of these ideas, in limited areas, before introducing them world-wide.

 

[TheBFG]

well, reading the RFU directive, you're going to have to change.

that'll be all of us then! :wink:

 

[Shelflife]

when we give the non-verbal cue, what happens if the the opposing scrum half immediately shouts 'TAP' so that his pack can anticipate the put in.

Sigh, I really think it was better when they conducted trials of these ideas, in limited areas, before introducing them world-wide.

If he shouts tap or similar, it's irrelevant as long as the front row don't push before the ball is in. Just explain that to the SHs at the start and that should sort it. If they push, then nail them early on, they will soon get the message.

 

[didds]

when we give the non-verbal cue, what happens if the the opposing scrum half immediately shouts 'TAP' so that his pack can anticipate the put in.

as of course he could now/then with the quiet verbal process.

didds

 

[crossref]

to make it really fun: as soon as the non-throwing SH sees the tap on the shoulder he could shout "YES-9"

my how we'd laugh. But I can't see it's a FK offence.

 

[Decorily]

to make it really fun: as soon as the non-throwing SH sees the tap on the shoulder he could shout "YES-9"

my how we'd laugh. But I can't see it's a FK offence.

Why not an offence?

I certainly would put a stop to it!

 

[crossref]

Why not an offence?

I certainly would put a stop to it!

Law reference?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Law reference?

[LAWS]10.4 (m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the
spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

I would take the same view as players making disruptive calls at the line-out, a dim one!!

 

[Decorily]

If I felt that it was done in such a way as to convince oppo that it was in fact me (referee) who had called it, or I felt that it could possibly be interpreted that way by oppo then I would react and (depending on level) either have a word or penalise.

I'm pretty sure you don't need me to reference a law to cover it!

 

[oldman]

Guys,

I have been discussing new protocol with a couple of referees who, like myself, mainly referee U18s. We have he following issues/concerns.

1 - the advisability of touching (in any way) children and the possible consequences thereof, what directives have been issued?

2 - If I manage scrum from none putting in side as a norm then that allows two scrum halfs licence to mess around and flankers to stop the defending SH following the ball. Also limits my management options.

3 - To allow a nice wide field of vision I currently back well away from the scrum, any suggestions on how I can coninue to use the effective management technique.

Dont expect any answers from RFU but would appreciate your input.

 

[didds]

If he shouts tap or similar, it's irrelevant as long as the front row don't push before the ball is in. Just explain that to the SHs at the start and that should sort it. If they push, then nail them early on, they will soon get the message.

as of course is the case whether the ref uses a tap or a verbal message.

didds

 

[Simon Thomas]

Dont expect any answers from RFU but would appreciate your input.

Oldman - i have had a number of emails and discussions this morning on this exact topic with various senior volunteers in groupo and Societies and some paid RFU staff.
Your pessimism is unwarranted as immediate action has been taken by RFU to offer additional guidance !

BTW toi all 0- there was a footnote on the first RFU email today :

To see these in action please follow the link below.

Link: http://we.tl/sJOLHDaTyJ which have three examples

Here is the additional guidance which will no doubt cascade out via the official routes. A RFU Manager has just sent this additional guidance email fto SW Group following emails and calls this morning on this topic at Group, Federation and Society levels, plus of course the Forum activity here and elsewhere. Been fascinating watching it all unfold and see who were the pro-active folks on the volunteer and RFU Paid Staff sides. Well done - you know who you are.


"The following additional guidance which has been agreed and will hopefully clarify the situation relating to under age and women and girls:

To support the new IRB Scrum Directive the following additional guidance is offered:

Ensure scrum half (and scrum half replacements) are briefed to the new protocol.

Ensure they are aware of how you will indicate that you are happy for them to put the ball in:

a) If on the far side of the scrum to the put-in the referee will raise his hand and nod his head in a yes motion when he happy for the ball to be put-in.

b) If on the same side as the put-in the referee should tap the scrum half on the back when he is happy for the ball to be put-in.

With under age games suggest that when you brief the scrum half the coach is present so there can be no ambiguity regarding where and how you will touch the scrum half to indicate he can put the ball in. Alternatively, if you are uncomfortable with this, manage the scrum from the far side to the put-in but please ensure the safety elements and need to move to put in side if the need arises.

With male referees refereeing women and girls matches please ensure a similar process is adopted to ensure there is no doubt about where the contact will be made.

If necessary, whilst the protocol indicates touching the scrum half on the back, at underage and women and girls games you may feel more comfortable touching the player on the shoulder but it is essential that the player is briefed accordingly."

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I'm glad I've stopped refeeeing. Hopefully something sensible will be in place by the time I come back.

Dear Guest

You are invited to attend a complimentary drinks evening at the Black Sheep Brewery in Masham - no sorry the Marsden's Brewery in Burton upon Trent - on Monday, no Friday 16th (or is it the 18th?) of September, sorry sorry make that October 2013 - oh shit no that's already gone - sorry 2014.

RSVP

Regards

The iRB

PS Please bring a bottle.

 

[crossref]

Oldman - i have had a number of emails and discussions this morning on this exact topic with various senior volunteers in groupo and Societies and some paid RFU staff.
Your pessimism is unwarranted as immediate action has been taken by RFU to offer additional guidance !

BTW toi all 0- there was a footnote on the first RFU email today :

To see these in action please follow the link below.

Link: http://we.tl/sJOLHDaTyJ which have three examples

Here is the additional guidance which will no doubt cascade out via the official routes. A RFU Manager has just sent this additional guidance email fto SW Group following emails and calls this morning on this topic at Group, Federation and Society levels, plus of course the Forum activity here and elsewhere. Been fascinating watching it all unfold and see who were the pro-active folks on the volunteer and RFU Paid Staff sides. Well done - you know who you are.


"The following additional guidance which has been agreed and will hopefully clarify the situation relating to under age and women and girls:

To support the new IRB Scrum Directive the following additional guidance is offered:

Ensure scrum half (and scrum half replacements) are briefed to the new protocol.

Ensure they are aware of how you will indicate that you are happy for them to put the ball in:

a) If on the far side of the scrum to the put-in the referee will raise his hand and nod his head in a yes motion when he happy for the ball to be put-in.

b) If on the same side as the put-in the referee should tap the scrum half on the back when he is happy for the ball to be put-in.

With under age games suggest that when you brief the scrum half the coach is present so there can be no ambiguity regarding where and how you will touch the scrum half to indicate he can put the ball in. Alternatively, if you are uncomfortable with this, manage the scrum from the far side to the put-in but please ensure the safety elements and need to move to put in side if the need arises.

With male referees refereeing women and girls matches please ensure a similar process is adopted to ensure there is no doubt about where the contact will be made.

If necessary, whilst the protocol indicates touching the scrum half on the back, at underage and women and girls games you may feel more comfortable touching the player on the shoulder but it is essential that the player is briefed accordingly."

thanks Simon - very useful. Can't follow your link at work though.

Qu - is it actualyl forbidden for us to continue to use a verbal 'yes-9' at underage levels ?

 

[ianh5979]

What do we do with the non put in scrum half who thinks its a good idea to tap the scrum half on the back before the ref does?
Penalty? free kick?

 

[crossref]

think the US response is very sensible, gives them time to think through all the ramifications.

they also make the very sensible observation that the IRB are taking out something (yes-9) that isn't in the published protocol.

on touching: personally I would place a small wager that the RFU's hastily-written guidance on touching underage and female players will be changed again before the end of the month.

Eg - I wonder if this new protocol will end up in bringing back CRB checks for referees :-(

 

[crossref]

that's impersonating the ref, so an easy PK.
the scrum-half who warns his team that the tap has taken place : can't see anythnig wrong with it. (though I do agree that I would ask him to shout soemthiong other than 'yes-9' as that would, again, be like impersonating the ref)

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Yes 9
Say no more!
Nudge Nudge
Wink Wink

 

[TheBFG]

[LAWS]10.4 (m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the
spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

I would take the same view as players making disruptive calls at the line-out, a dim one!!

Bu&&er I totaly agree with Ian :wink: