IRB dispenses with Yes 9

[Simon Thomas]

What do we do with the non put in scrum half who thinks its a good idea to tap the scrum half on the back before the ref does?
Penalty? free kick?

I cannot imagine why a non-throwing #9 would do that - hee hee hee.

 

[TheBFG]

had a team recently where the non-putting in SH would tap the hand of his #2 as soon as the putting in SH released the ball, funny enough he took a few against the head. Didn't see a problem with it, carried on :shrug:

 

[crossref]

hey - could some kind person forward the RFU email to me ? crossreffing@gmail.com

got it now, thanks!

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

The more I think about this the more disinclined I am to contribute to the thread. I'll wait for the stuff to be cascaded out (I'm in no rush - I'm having a rest) in due course.

Agreed non verbal communication 'twixt referee and SHs??? What utter tosh is that?

PMB with both SHs??

Seperate agreements for either SH??? Same agreement???

Same agreement as last week's scrum halves????

Anyway - sounds like a load of old bollocks IMO.

I'm sure we'll find a way that suits eventually.

 

[Phil E]

Is there a smiley for Mountains and Molehills?

 

[matty1194]

What do we do with the non put in scrum half who thinks its a good idea to tap the scrum half on the back before the ref does?
Penalty? free kick?

Ian,

I was watching a game at Murrayfield last night, U20's warm up match and this was using the new non-verbal signalling for the 9's.

Ref had agreed that he would tap them twice on the shoulder to indicate ball in. First few scrums go fine, no issues, defending back line creeps up offside, ref after calling C-B-S then looks and tell's them to move back as the defending 9 taps the attacking 9 who feeds thinking he has the "signal" who then proceed's to get FK'd for putting it in early!


With regards female and U16/U18 teams (youngest age I will referee through personal choice, too many variations going under that age group) and the way to inform the SH to get the ball in, as long as at both team's PMB I inform the coach and SH's that I will be tapping them twice on the shoulder then Im happy, im tapping them on their shoulder not touching their bits!

Lets be grown up about this, we are in the middle of a pitch, with some level of supporters be that the man and his dog or even just the coach and subs, its not like we are hiding in a cupboard touching them inappropriately!

 

[crossref]

Ian,

I was watching a game at Murrayfield last night, U20's warm up match and this was using the new non-verbal signalling for the 9's.

Ref had agreed that he would tap them twice on the shoulder to indicate ball in. First few scrums go fine, no issues, defending back line creeps up offside, ref after calling C-B-S then looks and tell's them to move back as the defending 9 taps the attacking 9 who feeds thinking he has the "signal" who then proceed's to get FK'd for putting it in early!

sigh, something else for us to watch out for.

is anyone aware of this protocol being trialed anywhere before, prior to precipitate worldwide implementaion

 

[didds]

"With male referees refereeing women and girls matches please ensure a similar process is adopted to ensure there is no doubt about where the contact will be made."

so no perceived issues with female refs touching male players?

didds

 

[didds]

Ref had agreed that he would tap them twice on the shoulder to indicate ball in. First few scrums go fine, no issues, defending back line creeps up offside, ref after calling C-B-S then looks and tell's them to move back as the defending 9 taps the attacking 9 who feeds thinking he has the "signal" who then proceed's to get FK'd for putting it in early!

Its wrong, its ungentlemanly conduct etc. But its brilliant. 24 hours of discussion and already somebody has worked out the obvious cheat.

Like OB said....

didds

 

[crossref]

Its wrong, its ungentlemanly conduct etc. But its brilliant. 24 hours of discussion and already somebody has worked out the obvious cheat.

Like OB said....

didds

my son is a scrum half --- I just know he'll try that ..

 

[Simon Thomas]

had a team recently where the non-putting in SH would tap the hand of his #2 as soon as the putting in SH released the ball, funny enough he took a few against the head. Didn't see a problem with it, carried on :shrug:

an old favourite I used a few times when Noah was hooking :biggrin:

 

[Simon Thomas]

"With male referees refereeing women and girls matches please ensure a similar process is adopted to ensure there is no doubt about where the contact will be made."

so no perceived issues with female refs touching male players?

didds

funny you should say that Didds - as one of this morning specific questions (based on a "negative" personal experience) was from a female referee who had an incident when reffing youth rugby, but also had concerns about the 'tap' when she refs adult male players.

 

[Daftmedic]

"With male referees refereeing women and girls matches please ensure a similar process is adopted to ensure there is no doubt about where the contact will be made."

so no perceived issues with female refs touching male players?

didds

absolutly buddy. Had the same problem at work. OC's inspection of the vehicle sheds. REME guys and girls stood by their work places OC goes ape about a calendar from. FHM not showing bits but completely disregards the more naked pictures of blokes in the Girls work bay. He threatens to charge the lads under sect 69 (no punn intended) pulls the calendar down and rips it up.
Me: Have you got a minute sir........
OC: Yes what is it?
Me: shall we take this somewhere more discreet?
off we ****ington into the Medical store.
ME: sir, pray do tell what all that was about? (Not quite as polite).
OC: I'm going to charge them, they shouldn't have those kind of pictures up in the work place!
Me: WOW WOW WOW! Wait there a minute sir!
i go and get the other calander.
Me: Like this one sir?
OC: What are you showing me?
Me: A far worse calander that shows far more than the FHM one! (I may of used some words that are best not written).
OC: I'm to busy to discuss this! (Exits whilst slamming door).
Moral of the story you ask?
To be "Inclusive", first you must "Label", which in itself is prejudicial.

 

[crossref]

to me it comes down the real basic
- we don't want players touching us
- to maintain that important boundary: we shouldn't be touching players.

it's that simple. If you and a SH are not seeing eye-to-eye (a situation, let's face it, not entirely unheard of) and he's cross with you and you're cross with him, then patting his back every two minutes is just not going to help in calming the situation.

 

[crossref]

RFU announcement
http://www.rfu.com/takingpart/referee/latestlawupdates

IRB Scrum Directive as of January 7, 2014
In a minor revision to the current protocol surrounding the ongoing scrum engagement global trial, the International Rugby Board has confirmed that referees will use non-verbal communication to indicate to the scrum half when the ball can be thrown into the scrum.

Up to now as part of the scrum trial, the referee has told the scrum half that the scrum is ready for the put-in by the use of the phrase “yes nine”. But following an initial review, including consultation with national coaches and referee managers, it has been decided that referees will adopt a non-verbal communication to scrum halves for the introduction of the ball in accordance with the relevant law (20.5 Throwing the Ball Into the Scrum).

With the new procedure now the verbal “yes nine” has been dropped:

If the scrum half is on the far side of the scrum the referee will raise his hand and nod his head in a yes motion when he believes that there is sufficient stability for the ball to be put in.

If the referee is on the putting in side, he will give the nine a tap on the back when he believes that there is sufficient stability for the ball to be put in.

Referees need to continue to referee all of the other elements of the scrum trial including: pushing before the ball is introduced to the scrum by the nine and clear and obvious put-ins that are not straight.

Note that that while its headed up "IRB Directive" but the RFU has followed the IRB text its own interpretation of the Directive ... as if it all came from the IRB.

 

[winchesterref]

I think it is sad that tapping someone on the shoulder is seen as potentially improper by some!

This situation isn't a big issue and although personally prefer quiet verbal (see pre-season thread), if we're to go non verbal then that's fine and I will crack on with a gentle tap or a nod!

 

[SimonSmith]

I'm not a huge fan of touching players. Not because there's anything inherently wrong with it, but because mischief makers - and they are out there - can make something out of nothing.

I can tell you from personal experience that misinterpreted innocent gestures get referees into trouble.

 

[crossref]

I'm not a huge fan of touching players. Not because there's anything inherently wrong with it, but because mischief makers - and they are out there - can make something out of nothing.

I can tell you from personal experience that misinterpreted innocent gestures get referees into trouble.

agreed. touching people is not generally a good idea. especially if they are already angry/emotional (they are scrum-halves).

we don't want players to touch us. We shouldn't be touching players.

 

[Daftmedic]

There is a difference between "Touching" and TOUCHING!!!
Touching is a form of communication. I for one have placed caring hand on players who have taken a blow and are less than "with" it. This acts not as a physical barrier but as a shepherding action to relay to the player they are more hurt.

Its not not a where did they touch you teddy.



its more a gentle caring

 

[crossref]

There is a difference between "Touching" and TOUCHING!!!
Touching is a form of communication. I for one have placed caring hand on players who have taken a blow and are less than "with" it. This acts not as a physical barrier but as a shepherding action to relay to the player they are more hurt.

fair enough, but
- do you touch players in other circumstances?
- would you ever touch an angry player ? What reaction would you expect if you did?